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Thread: pete a 2.2 200 and a bit bhp pinto

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    pete a 2.2 200 and a bit bhp pinto

    just to make sure i didnt get bored i've started another pinto!

    road car this time, the brief good power and bucket loads of torque,were not chasing high revs its got to be nice to drive if your feeling lazy on a sunday morning, so its really going to have bits of dave, geoff and linford pintos all rolled up into one



    from this grotty dusty looking donor i've opened it up and found an unworn crank and bearings, good news when your going to stroke a crank


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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    I have just finished a 2.1 build using a lot of info from your previous builds and a lot of help from the other notable builders on here.
    Sold my Diesel Fiesta rods and now you start this project!

    I am going to have to book some time with my therapist again.

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    head will be the usual BVH, cam duno yet but the following are all in the running, kent RL31, 32 or newman P4.5 or P4.75 looking in the cam catalogs they are all a bit on the "racy" side but although im looking for a very grunty engine it needs still needs to rev fairly freely and make some respectable top end numbers, the engines going on management plus 2.2 capacity means the cams will start working sooner than the book says

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    When you say "Mangement" do you mean spark or spark and fuel.
    Which management are you going to use?

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    yes when i say management i mean spark and fuel, dunno what ecu it will run (not my engine) but it doesnt matter if you get the spark advance and fueling right an omex, dta, emerald megga squirt wil, motec etcl all give the same power

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    I have a fair bit of experience with a Megajolt and now my curiosity is making me research Megasquirt.
    It does seem so much more complicated.
    My new exhaust will have a Lambda boss welded in so I can log AFR as I fiddle.

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    the origonal idea was to use cast 2.8 pistons and either x/flow or 1600 diesel rods, x/flow are cheaper and easier to get but shorter and need more modifing to fit, as it happens diesel rods turned up first,

    2.8 pistons with diesel rods make a good combo, add in an 80mm stroke and the piston will need a bit machined off the top of it, then the glich came, at the moment 2.8 pistons seem to be practically impossible to find,non of my suppliers could get any to get at the moment and didnt know when they could get any, burtons had some in limited sizes, but want so much money for them forged ones look almost cheap.

    so it looks like forged pistons it will be then, no problem except forged pistons dont come in 2.8 compression height they are pinto hieght, with a long stroke and longer diesel rods too much would need to be skimmed off them, in the end we settled on some low 38mm compression height yb accralites








    the 38mm compresion height works nicely, the only draw back being these pistons have incredably thick crowns on them, making them a bit on the heavy side, they are no heavier than std cast ones but could be a lot lighter, such a thick crown has given me ideas about finding a longer rod to go in the pinto and machining a chunk off the crown
    Last edited by Graham; 28-02-2011 at 12:22.

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    I have a new set of 93mm KS 2.8 pistons here, just need a set of rings, I would give you a very good price, if you change your mind.

    That is a lot of volume above the top ring, ignition is going to have a hard time burning the mxture down there
    Last edited by RWD fords rule; 28-02-2011 at 13:33.
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    thanks but you might be wise to hang on to them until someone makes another batch they could come into very short supply

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Tbh with the price of wossner pistons I can't see myself using them
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    It was V6 pistons I fitted to cosworth rods for my build then sold the Desiel rods, wish I'd kept them now.
    What compression would you have run with the V6 pistons?

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    What compression would you have run with the V6 pistons?
    if you mean std cast 2.8 pistons 10.5 but thats about it, they will take more compression but not over a long period of time

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto


    not a lot of prgress but some non the less, i've got the block back now 93mm, the one next to it is for daves atmo yb

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Graham, is offset grinding the crank a special thing? Tried to find someone local to me some year back but couldn't

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    not all grinding machines can, some just follow an existing journal and therfore cant move it but also just replicate or increase any existing errors in the crank pin position,

    better machines can grind the journal where ever you want it, only the bigger companies or those that do lots and lots of performance work are likely to be able to

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    What make piston are they?

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    accralite, or should I say accraheavy! lol
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Did you look at the toyota piston in my thread ?

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    not all grinding machines can, some just follow an existing journal and therfore cant move it but also just replicate or increase any existing errors in the crank pin position,

    better machines can grind the journal where ever you want it, only the bigger companies or those that do lots and lots of performance work are likely to be able to
    I've had this done twice in the past...at least 15 or so years ago. I sent my std cranks to Farndon for offset grinding...and they also supplied, double-dowelled and balanced steel flywheels to them to complete the assembly. Top job they did too...as you'd expect.

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    ok update time, finally got some progress,the clutch face on the flywheel was pretty grotty and needed remachining, i cant do it in my lathe it wont quite take a pinto flywheel, but as they say where theres a will theres a way, fitting a rotary table to my mill i could fly cut it, what is supposed to be better than turning it anyway, it was dammed hard work i know, the clutch face had work hardened and didnt really want to machine, but i got the better of it in the end





    then i flipped the flywheel over and attacked the rear of it, nothing fancy, i just removed most of the big lump off the back, this being a flywheel off an efi motor meant it was a huge lump,





    i never weighed it before i started but it now weighs 7.5kgs, as its going in a road car which needs nice manors i'd rather leave it a little heavy still rather than a little light, all that machinging took hours and quite a bit of tool resharpening, so im not likely to do another in a hurry.



    diesel rod next to a very similar looking x/flow rod



    big ends are 1mm too wide to fit a pinto crank so i made a jig to narrow them in the lathe


    diesel rods are a little on the heavy side so i've started to lighten them a bit, first remove the big balencing pad from the small end

    Last edited by Graham; 02-04-2011 at 23:50.

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Theres some healthy dose of meat in the big end too.

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    gonna be a nice interesting thread this , surely you need to keep the balancing pad on the small end though arn't you?
    its not dead till it's buried!


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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Quote Originally Posted by caprimentle View Post
    gonna be a nice interesting thread this , surely you need to keep the balancing pad on the small end though arn't you?
    nope, no need, there so much material around the small end there wont be any problem balencing them

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Nice work there, the turtable looks like it makes an easy job out of lightening the flywheel, yead I also machine off the balance pads, they just add a load of weight ot the rods, loads of meat left for balancing.
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    yeah the turntable worked well but its very long winded compaired to doing it in a lathe,

    with the rods i also removed 90% of the big end balence pad, rods now weight 680g instead of 740g, when i checked them for balence, two were identical and the heaviest was only 5 grams more than the lightest, so to balence them all i had to take a bit off two small ends and one bigend

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto


    there you go rods with no balence pads

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto




    here we have a piston on a diesel rod, sitting on a std crank, without any bearings in the rod, its about 0.5mm down the bore, the bearing thickness and offset will lift it about 3mm, so a bit of piston shortening is required,



    with a small lathe its difficult to hold the piston safely, and it makes a real mess of them when the fly across the room, so i hatch a plan, and held it in a face plate



    i probably wouldnt do that on a full race engine where i was going for every last fraction of piston protrusion and tightest possible sqwish simply because i couldnt get the face dead true and it takes slightly more off one side of the crown then the other, but where clearances are big its fine, infact no worse than std cast pistons



    i took off more than i needed on the basis the block will be decked anyway so i thought i'd lighten the piston a bit at the same time, infact the piston shed 80g weight,

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Great minds think alike lol, i recently machined a set of pistons pretty much the exact same way, I machined a recess in the face plate first so I could get the piston to lighned up perfectly on centre and the the runout when clocking the crowns ended up less than 0.02mm, so I could get bang on .75mm squish

    A good addition is to turn the pin down a bit smaller so you can get a wrap or two of masking tape to protect the pin bosses when clamping them down.

    Might be helpful for next time











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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto









    a few pics from todays work, nothing radical, unusually this head has really really good guides still so no work needed there, its already an unleaded head, which TBH i'd of prefered it not to be so i had to turn the exhaust valves down so they'd fit on the oe seat inserts, the guide boss is still full length although i've narrowed it and raised the port roof either side of it

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    why would you prefer it not to be an unleaded head? i thought they had better ports.
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    injection heads have better ports, this is an injection head, its also an unleaeded one

    the reason i'd of prefered a non unleaded head is std ford unleaded inserts arnt very big, so no room for a bigger exhaust valve unless you fit new bigger inserts
    Last edited by Graham; 05-04-2011 at 08:11.

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    What diameter did the exhaust valves end up at to match the unleaded seats?

    I think a 37mm valve is more than big enough anyway
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    36.5!

    TBH were not pushing to silly rpm so i doubt it will make much differnce, the cams an RL31 and on a 2.2 bottom end is likely to be all done and dusted before 7K anyway
    Last edited by Graham; 05-04-2011 at 13:12.

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Hello Graham,

    Do you mind showing us a picture of the burrs and sanding rolls etc that you are using to port this head. I have a few good burrs but want to buy some more and was wondering which you found the best

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    I think that valve size is still plenty, nice porting btw, you straightened out the tight bend in hte ex ports quite well, going for a bigger valve can make that bend a little tighter after you have the bowl area opened out, some people even use std ex valves and 46mm inlets on full race engines with good results.

    Would be nice to see some flow figures on this head if you had time, I know you have another engine to build though
    Last edited by RWD fords rule; 05-04-2011 at 23:03.
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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Now why did'nt I see those pics of mounting pistons in lathe , 2 weeks ago a crapped bricks when I did a set, they just fitted into my chuck and I had to do ultra thin cuts.

    Clever boys!

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    right crank and flywheel are back, as you can see they didnt remove much in the way of material to rebalence it, infact generally i dont bother with balencing the crank assembly



    the crank came back with a couple of drillings in it, not suprsing really when you think the bigends are now 3mm smaller



    the beauty of starting with such a nice crank is its still Std/std on bearing sizes, the mains as i thought only wanted a polish and the ends had so little wear that they got the required stroke using std size diesel bearings

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Great progress graham, looks like it will be another cracking engine.
    Love the thought and effort going into it, you've certainly got a fair chunk of the machine work out of the way too.

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto




    i havnt done any real work to the chamber, just removed sharp edges and the bigger bumps, here a couple of dummy valves are installed, so thick are the ford valves compaired to the valves from vulcan coupled with the small amount of material removed the chambers have gained 2cc over std











    brand x inlet manifold, with ports quite a bit smaller than the head, which makes a change because most pinto manifolds i've had have ports bigger than the head,




    popped over to emerald today to sort an ecu to run this on, dave had just finished mapping a very very nice TR5 and the chap had been for a test drive and popped back to check his laptop could talk to it, the owner also reported mpg had improved from 22 on the origonal lucas injection to 39mpg!

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    Re: pete a 2.2 pinto

    Hi Graham quick question i am using xflow rods on my 2.2 and i notice the oil spray hole on the rods is on the opposite side to the pinto ones .should i fit the rods as per pinto .
    regards paul

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