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Thread: 4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

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    4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

    Hereís the sump I modified to suit an escort, excuse the incomplete welding itís not finished yet, I still need to add baffles/trap doors and a pickup pipe etc, Iíll get around to this soon enough and post the pictures when itís completed.

    From the photos youíll get the basic shape I went for, I installed the engine and cross member and made lots of cardboard templates before I started shaping metal, I allowed a minimum of 10mm clearance between the sump and the rack etc. Iím only using the flange from the original Toyota sump, the rest was cut off because it was totally unsuitable for an escort. To minimise distortion when welding I bolted the sump to the block (Using all the bolts), seems to have worked as the flange still sits perfectly. I havenít measured yet but I guess it will hold at least an extra litre of oil more than the Toyota sump as itís slightly deeper and a lot wider. Itís all made from 1mm sheet steel and TIG welded.
























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    Re: 4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

    Nice job... But i bet will be hard to get it off again, if needed, when it's in the car...

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    Re: 4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

    Quote Originally Posted by M11rf View Post
    Nice job... But i bet will be hard to get it off again, if needed, when it's in the car...
    True, but if I undo the 4 cross member bolts and the steering knuckle I can drop the cross member enough to slip it out, the engine is chassis mounted.

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    Re: 4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

    Ahh... i see... I never noticed that when i first looked

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    Re: 4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

    I think I prefer M11rf's solution retaining the front bowl just modifying it slightly to clear the rack, that way you do not have to mess with the pick up pipe or anything.

    You will need to pull the engine forward a little to clear the water outlet on the back of the head anyway.

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    Re: 4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

    I was worried about how small my bowl was when it was first done, only 3.5 liters of oil and the dip stick is just above MAX.

    But i have been round the track a few times and run it on the road for 2+ years now and it has never been a problem. I Always make sure the oil level is kept on, or slightly above maximum.

    Sometimes simple, can work. But the rear bowl sump should look nice when fitted and cause less worries.

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    Re: 4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

    That sump looks good,

    I would make the corner next to the steering rack dead square, to stop oil traveling up and over the large curve you have there under breaking, also the wings would be much better if they had flat tops, the same level as the oil will be at, that way when cornering the oil cannot fill the large gap you have there above the oil level, where as if the tops of the wings were flat with the oil level the oil has nowhere to go with a good windage tray.

    Did you make a windage tray for it? It would cure the engine breaking problem.

    Basicly a flat plate at the same level as the oil with about 6 x 5/8" holes drilled for oil return about 2" in from the edge of the windage tray plate, and a flared edge turned downwards so oil can easily go down but not back up, you can do this with a ball pein hammer and a suitable socket each side of the plate in a vice, works a treat

    Also with the pickup pipe, try your best to locate it in the centre of where the oil will be if that makes sense, and lleave it 8mm off the bottom of the sump, this will not restrict flow and you want to have ti as close to this as possible, much less chance of the pickup pipe sucking air under hard g forces.

    Nice work btw, will hold a lot more oil than normal just need t ocontrol the oil a bit better and it is perfect

    Oh and btw brace up the bottom of those engine mounts, they will bend/crack at the bottom, very common failure with chassis mount over jumps

    Regards
    Jason
    Last edited by RWD fords rule; 07-04-2011 at 16:19.
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: 4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

    Quote Originally Posted by M11rf View Post
    I was worried about how small my bowl was when it was first done, only 3.5 liters of oil and the dip stick is just above MAX.

    But i have been round the track a few times and run it on the road for 2+ years now and it has never been a problem. I Always make sure the oil level is kept on, or slightly above maximum.

    Sometimes simple, can work. But the rear bowl sump should look nice when fitted and cause less worries.
    Tbh I like the simplicity of your modified sump, but 3.5 litres is quite low, I would sooner 5 litres, you could easily add a large square sinple square shaped wing on either side of the sump and still have plenty of cearance around everything and get the engien in and out of there without any hassle, a simple windage tray would also help, then you would have a really well sorted sump for racing etc

    Regards
    Jason
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: 4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

    The 4AGE sump is only about 3.75 litres in capcity anyway and the engine arleady has a windage tray.

    This is probably why M11rf hasnt had any issues with his.

    OK, there is probably a little more overall capacity with the oil cooler set up on the MkI MR2 but a standard sump obviously works for the engine in an MR2

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    Racer Decade Plus User RWD fords rule's Avatar

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    Re: 4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

    The std sump was not designed for track days or rallying, racing etc, 3.75 litres capacity is not enough imho

    You might get away with the std sump but there is nothing wrong with adding a wing or two when doing the odd track day and it is essential in my view for any form of competition

    Many std sumps are weak in certain areas, some loose oil pressure on right hand bends, left hand bends, under breaking, acceleration, as an example std RS2000 sumps loose oil pressure around hard left hand bends, I have proven this to be true at a local race track, adding a second wing onto the sump has totally sured that problem for my friends competion car, the oil pressure needle never moves now.

    A simple fix that could save the engine as I have heard more than a few people say their 25psi oil light comes on for a moment on tight left hand bends, I would add an extra wing or two to any sump to get the capacity up around the 5 to 6 litre mark, it is much safer for competition

    Regards
    Jason
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: 4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

    Quote Originally Posted by RWD fords rule View Post
    That sump looks good,

    I would make the corner next to the steering rack dead square, to stop oil traveling up and over the large curve you have there under breaking, also the wings would be much better if they had flat tops, the same level as the oil will be at, that way when cornering the oil cannot fill the large gap you have there above the oil level, where as if the tops of the wings were flat with the oil level the oil has nowhere to go with a good windage tray.

    Did you make a windage tray for it? It would cure the engine breaking problem.

    Basicly a flat plate at the same level as the oil with about 6 x 5/8" holes drilled for oil return about 2" in from the edge of the windage tray plate, and a flared edge turned downwards so oil can easily go down but not back up, you can do this with a ball pein hammer and a suitable socket each side of the plate in a vice, works a treat

    Also with the pickup pipe, try your best to locate it in the centre of where the oil will be if that makes sense, and lleave it 8mm off the bottom of the sump, this will not restrict flow and you want to have ti as close to this as possible, much less chance of the pickup pipe sucking air under hard g forces.

    Nice work btw, will hold a lot more oil than normal just need t ocontrol the oil a bit better and it is perfect

    Oh and btw brace up the bottom of those engine mounts, they will bend/crack at the bottom, very common failure with chassis mount over jumps

    Regards
    Jason
    Don’t worry, the engine mounts will be braced, everything is still at the dummy build stage.

    The 20V already has a windage tray bolted to the main caps, and I plan to run a trap door baffle system in the sump to reduce the chance of starvation. When I get all of this done ill post the pictures.

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    Re: 4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

    Update time, a few pictures of the trap door system and pick-up pipe, there is a baffle plate that bolts to the threaded inserts you can see in the pictures this has a hole just big enough for the pick-up pipe to pass through, can’t find any pictures of this sorry.

    I wanted to wait until I was sure that it all works and that I have no oil surge, after 100km of rally stages, 2 hill climbs, and 2 track-days I can confirm there is no oil surge whatsoever.

    I can also tell you that fabricating this was the biggest pain in the balls I’ve ever had. (I finished it a year ago and my left testicle is still sore.)

    A 2 week job never to be repeated, MIIrf’s front bowl job is the way to go I think.

















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    Re: 4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

    Looks a top job mate And if you are rallying then it gives you peace of mind.

    I have added some wings to mine in the meantime to give it a bit more capacity


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    Re: 4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

    Muckerberry,
    Im interested as to why you went for a rear bowl and what you have done about the dipstick? I only ask as I will be making the sump for mine in the near future and was going to go for a big wing front bowl for ease of the dipstick etc?
    Cheers
    James

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    Re: 4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

    MIIrf:
    Your sump is very neat, looking at your picture is making me want to kick myself for spending so long fabricating mine....

    Oddy:
    The dipstick enters the back of the sump into one of the wings, nothing complicated. I can’t find the photos I took of it anywhere sorry.

    The reason I went for a rear bowl sump was for extra protection as the sump is behind the cross member, and increased oil capacity, I needn’t have bothered as I probably only gained an extra pint of oil.

    Trust me, go for the front bowl set up!

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    Re: 4age Wet Sump Modifications to Suit an Escort

    My sump is just the original modified to clear the steering rack.. So my engine oil is less than normal... But it run ok from 1995 till now... But i wish i had the baffled like yours...

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