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Thread: Bolt in cage fitment

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    Bodger

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    Bolt in cage fitment

    Hi is there any reason why I shouldn't fit a bolt in safety devices cage on welded platforms with captive nuts to avoid drilling holes in the floor?

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    depends on if you want to fit the cage for show, or you want to install it properly so it can work as intended.

    if you going to do any kind of competition in the car you absolutely need to install it correctly.
    Last edited by Graham; 27-09-2019 at 08:10.

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    Thanks Graham I noticed it in a post on here and wondered if it was an option.

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=280290

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    I am sure I've seen it done the way you describe in some rally cars. I would not go ahead though without checking with an Motorsport Ireland or MSUK scrutineer (preferably in writing).
    The MSUK blue book & MSI regulations books have diagrams of approved cages & fitment etc, spend some time looking at these I think.

    Even if your car is not intended for motorsport you may as well do it properly & it'll be easier to sell too

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    Unless I'm mistaken I believe Graham is a Scrutineer.
    Last edited by rallyrob; 27-09-2019 at 11:35.

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    Graham, Page 183 drawing #16 appears to show something like what I described or am misrepresenting it?

    https://www.motorsportuk.org/assets/...onkrevised.pdf

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    Quote Originally Posted by seanyroche View Post
    Graham, Page 183 drawing #16 appears to show something like what I described or am misrepresenting it?

    https://www.motorsportuk.org/assets/...onkrevised.pdf
    your not, BUT thats not how that particular cage is designed to be fitted, so you would need to cut the feet off the cage to shorten, weld the foot back on then bolt it in.

    with reference to national level uk motorsport, you have to have a cage which either complies to CURRENT MSA year book standards, OR a cage which has MSA/FIA certification/approval.

    This means a cage which may of been designed and certified in say the 60's or 70's and does not comply to current standards is still ok to use, HOWEVER if you make any modifications to it, it ceases to be a certified cage meaning it must now comply with current regulations which it wont so technically it cant be used.

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    Quote Originally Posted by rallyrob View Post
    Unless I'm mistaken I believe Graham is a Scrutineer.
    your correct i am, and some would say its even worse than that as i'm also an eligibility scrutineer!

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    Quote Originally Posted by seanyroche View Post
    Thanks Graham I noticed it in a post on here and wondered if it was an option.

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=280290
    looking at that it appears the plate welded to the floor is so thick its got threads for the bolts tapped into it. in which case from an MSA view point not technically correct but a cant see anyone knocking it back

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    anything mr gp4 does is usually on the button,i think that will be 3mm plate folded with captive nuts/threads

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    Quote Originally Posted by turbospud View Post
    anything mr gp4 does is usually on the button,i think that will be 3mm plate folded with captive nuts/threads
    Its hard to make out in the photo but that's what I thought it looked like too hence my original question.
    Last edited by seanyroche; 27-09-2019 at 20:36.

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    GP4's work is always top draw...

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    your correct i am, and some would say its even worse than that as i'm also an eligibility scrutineer!
    What's one of those then Graham, does that mean you can logbook a car?

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    Quote Originally Posted by rallyrob View Post
    What's one of those then Graham, does that mean you can logbook a car?
    scruits check that cars meet blue book safety requirements,

    eligibility scruts also check cars meet the championship technical regulations. which can be anything from simply weighing a car, to measuring engine internals, gear ratios, suspension geometry etc etc.

    you dont need to be an eligibility scrut to do log books, you simply need a scrut with a national grade licence, but even then most wont do them as they are hassle
    Last edited by Graham; 27-09-2019 at 21:08.

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    Blimey, lots involved then.

    The technical regs thing is obviously to make sure someones not getting some kind of unfair advantage then...

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    Quote Originally Posted by rallyrob View Post

    The technical regs thing is obviously to make sure someones not getting some kind of unfair advantage then...
    correct, i like checking stuff but to be honest dont like finding wrong. it can vary from simply being slightly underweight, incorrect assumptions as to what is allowed, wrong interpretation of regs to, blatant cheating.

    i filled in non compliance paper work on a couple of cars earlier this year, the drivers we absolutely gutted as their cars had illegal modifications done by the engine builders which they knew nothing about. reactions vary a lot. the first is usually one of, "but it doesn't give actually me an advantage" it may or may not, but against the rules is against the rules.

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    Racer

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    I seem to remember that the 'Wheeler Dealers' RS2000 effort used a similar solution. Whilst I don't advocate Edd China as a model for rally car builds, the solution was clever and signed off by a scrute. I'm not familiar with the exact regs but the underpinning plate fixed to the floor is the primary load bearer and IMO shouldn't ever be bolted only welded, treat plate sizes as minimums and a raised 'box' to form a boltable fixing would be safe - obviously the leg length should be adjusted by the supplier to maintain cage 'type approval'

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    Bodger

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    Quote Originally Posted by katana View Post
    I seem to remember that the 'Wheeler Dealers' RS2000 effort used a similar solution. Whilst I don't advocate Edd China as a model for rally car builds, the solution was clever and signed off by a scrute. I'm not familiar with the exact regs but the underpinning plate fixed to the floor is the primary load bearer and IMO shouldn't ever be bolted only welded, treat plate sizes as minimums and a raised 'box' to form a boltable fixing would be safe - obviously the leg length should be adjusted by the supplier to maintain cage 'type approval'
    Like this? http://www.motorsport-tools.com/wp/w...32943360_n.jpg

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    Re: Bolt in cage fitment

    Yeah that looks about what was done - nice bit of welding as well!

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