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    20v installation info

    Hi,

    Im planning a 20v install in a MK2 Escort and ideally I don't want to cut the bulkhead. This means a water relocation kit which is 290 euros from Ledwith Engineering (facebook) and now a aftermarket ECU setup which I know is costly but means I no longer need the distributor.

    Im aware of Omex 600 that RAW use and ive heard of VEMS. Does anybody use these in their cars? What are the costs?, how good are they? Any alternatives?

    Im trying to keep costs down but this project seems to be costing big style and im considering selling up and buying a hot 1700cc crossflow on 40's with a decent spec

    Dave
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    Mechanic Mk1_Deano's Avatar

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    Re: 20v installation info

    Quote Originally Posted by bunta20v View Post
    Hi,

    Im planning a 20v install in a MK2 Escort and ideally I don't want to cut the bulkhead. This means a water relocation kit which is 290 euros from Ledwith Engineering (facebook) and now a aftermarket ECU setup which I know is costly but means I no longer need the distributor.

    Im aware of Omex 600 that RAW use and ive heard of VEMS. Does anybody use these in their cars? What are the costs?, how good are they? Any alternatives?

    Im trying to keep costs down but this project seems to be costing big style and im considering selling up and buying a hot 1700cc crossflow on 40's with a decent spec

    Dave
    I guess its just me thats doing this conversion on here apart from you

    I'm pretty sure I'm going VEMS over Omex 600, this is because its abit cheaper, plus you can get more additionals for your money such as wideband lambda, lcd screens for monitoring and mapping etc. Have a look on driftworks, the 4AGE boys seem to rave about them over Omex, and thats what has persuaded me.
    I just need to find out who I need to speak to to discuss what I'd need and to get a quote, although nowhere near that stage yet!

    Its an expensive conversion all due to the ecu and waterlines, could quite happily knock 1500-2000 odd quid off the conversion if you didnt do this and cut the bulkhead instead.

    Have you considered going 16V if you already have the bellhousing etc...run carbs instead of ignition and the water is more easily sorted...

    HTH

    EDIT: Just had a thought, maybe you can run a COP system or DLI wasted spark....will check my files for what I have on them. Will get back to you on here tomoz
    Last edited by Mk1_Deano; 25-05-2011 at 00:20. Reason: Brainwave!

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    Re: 20v installation info

    I’m doing this conversion too, I’m just about at the water conversion & ECU stage. I plan to make my own water relocation kit, I’ve found a pinto thermostat housing is a very close fit for the top hose outlet, however the hose points in the wrong direction so you will need to be able to weld alloy to use it. (it’s hard to explain without pictures, ill do a guide with pictures when I get around to fabricating everything) Here is a good guide - http://s-86.com/s-newcoolingguide.html

    Regarding the ECU, I’ve got a OMEX 700 that I got a good price on second hand, I’m doing away with the distributor altogether and using a front pulley mounted trigger wheel and COP’s from a yaris, (They need slight modifications to fit.)

    A megasquirt ECU is a cheaper alternative, but unless you’re prepared to do everything yourself, hours of research, and a lot of figuring out and problem solving you won’t save any money. If you’ve got loads of spare time the MS system is great, brilliant even, id recommend it to anyone as the best way to learn your way around ECU systems, but if you’re not reasonably computer/electrically competent and don’t have loads of spare time it’s a total ball ache. (That’s why it has such a bad reputation in some circles)

    Talk to Raw Engineering, I think they do an off the shelf Omex kit, or they will at least point you in the right direction and give you an idea of cost.

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    Re: 20v installation info

    I have mentioned it before about the Dizzy...

    It is possible to run the standard dizzy and use use Coil On Plug with no modifications.

    All 4 plugs need to be wired to the same "spark" wire on the dizzy, this means you dont need the dizzy cap and rotar arm making it a hell of a lot shorter, perfect for RWD.

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    Re: 20v installation info

    Quote Originally Posted by M11rf View Post
    I have mentioned it before about the Dizzy...

    It is possible to run the standard dizzy and use use Coil On Plug with no modifications.

    All 4 plugs need to be wired to the same "spark" wire on the dizzy, this means you dont need the dizzy cap and rotar arm making it a hell of a lot shorter, perfect for RWD.


    Honda Coil On Plug diagram, uses the same trigger signal and the coils all fire together, but it seems to work for some reason. No need for the dizzy cap or rotor, just the cam angle sensor (the base of the dizzy)
    Last edited by Mk1_Deano; 26-05-2011 at 09:15.

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    Re: 20v installation info

    Nice diagram Deano...

    Was it done on the back of a fag packet?

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    Re: 20v installation info

    Thanks guys for the info. Had a read up on club4ag about it. Seems fairly straight forward.

    Looks like they use ones from a Civic 00 - 2005 model!

    If I went down the 16v route say from a MR2 then what issues would need to be addressed to get it into a Escort?
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    Re: 20v installation info

    Not many issues if you got a RWD engine... The main one is the sump needs modifying.

    If it is a FWD engine, you are looking at water pipe relocation again.

    20v would be a better option for off the shelf BHP... But has a lot of issues.

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    Re: 20v installation info

    Quote Originally Posted by muckerbarry View Post
    I’m doing this conversion too, I’m just about at the water conversion & ECU stage. I plan to make my own water relocation kit, I’ve found a pinto thermostat housing is a very close fit for the top hose outlet, however the hose points in the wrong direction so you will need to be able to weld alloy to use it. (it’s hard to explain without pictures, ill do a guide with pictures when I get around to fabricating everything) Here is a good guide - http://s-86.com/s-newcoolingguide.html

    Regarding the ECU, I’ve got a OMEX 700 that I got a good price on second hand, I’m doing away with the distributor altogether and using a front pulley mounted trigger wheel and COP’s from a yaris, (They need slight modifications to fit.)

    A megasquirt ECU is a cheaper alternative, but unless you’re prepared to do everything yourself, hours of research, and a lot of figuring out and problem solving you won’t save any money. If you’ve got loads of spare time the MS system is great, brilliant even, id recommend it to anyone as the best way to learn your way around ECU systems, but if you’re not reasonably computer/electrically competent and don’t have loads of spare time it’s a total ball ache. (That’s why it has such a bad reputation in some circles)

    Talk to Raw Engineering, I think they do an off the shelf Omex kit, or they will at least point you in the right direction and give you an idea of cost.
    Muckerberry

    I was just thinking about your setup you mentioned to me and some additional info gained from RAW.
    If your using omex then you dont need coil on pack using the Yaris parts.
    When speaking to Martin @ RAW he said you do away with the distributor and use a front mounted trigger wheel, crank sensor with a Zetec coil pack. Therefore you dont need to use Yaris COP's.

    RAW use omex 600 and you seem to have the next model up so I assume it has the features of omex 600 with some added features too.
    My understanding is COPS works well with the stock ECU but with a aftermarket ECU which has distributor-less ignition then its not needed. This is a feature on omex 600 so it should be on 700 series too.

    For anybody who intrested, a good article on 20v COP's can be found on Sams page:

    http://s-86.com/s-coilpacks.html

    Below are prices for RAW's omex kit + VAT

    Omex 600 £535
    Loom £60
    Water and Air Temp Sensors £20 each
    Front Pulley (exhange) £60
    Crank Sensor £25
    3 relays £10
    Zetec Coil (Ebay job from Blacktop E.G Focus, Mondeo or Fiesta 1.25)
    Plug leads £80 (Modified ford ones)
    Mk1 Mr2 Starter (Ebay job)

    They will give you a base map to start off with and its £25 per hour setup.

    20v Parts you can sell to help fund this:
    Map Sensor - (Not needed as load sensing is done via TPS)
    Igniter
    Coil
    Plug Wires
    ECU
    Distributor

    HTH
    RWD Escorts - Making the competition look like c**ts since 1968!

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    Re: 20v installation info

    Bunta,

    It’s not a case of needing COP’s for my ECU, I want to use COP’s because I then don’t need HT leads, so one less point of failure, I therefore have one less thing to investigate if the engine develops a miss-fire. Also, if a coil fails ill still have 3 cylinders firing to get me to the end of the stage and back to service, if a zetec coil fails the engine stops. Don’t get me wrong, zetec coils are very reliable, but in the unlikely event of a coil failure I’m out of the rally.

  14. #11
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    Re: 20v installation info

    Quote Originally Posted by muckerbarry View Post
    Bunta,

    It’s not a case of needing COP’s for my ECU, I want to use COP’s because I then don’t need HT leads, so one less point of failure, I therefore have one less thing to investigate if the engine develops a miss-fire. Also, if a coil fails ill still have 3 cylinders firing to get me to the end of the stage and back to service, if a zetec coil fails the engine stops. Don’t get me wrong, zetec coils are very reliable, but in the unlikely event of a coil failure I’m out of the rally.
    Ahh I see that your looking at this from a motorsport/competing view. good points there m8 . Just didnt want you to spend money than necessary . My car will be a mainly road use and the occasional track day when feeling brave .

    s-86.com can supply a set of modified COP's (Yaris) and adapter plate for £270 including shipping to the UK if that helps

    Dave
    RWD Escorts - Making the competition look like c**ts since 1968!

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    Re: 20v installation info

    thanks for the support Dave, I found myself here after my trackable website counter showed this thread.

    There is a better diagram available on that connection of coilpacks on an OEM ECU here:

    http://www.86garage.com/forums/viewt...73ce9f7a30773e

    I at first didn't use individual coils and to be blunt I wasn't overly interested. I used to use twin coils in waste spark which is ok but I found the price of replacement leads was the same as me sourcing 4 coils! I have warmed up the look of them now though. They have built in ignitors which is really handy as well. Here is a picture of someone elses install that looks cleaner than mine hehehe:




    Anyway with the cooling system you can buy it or I can show you how to make your own.

    I have to head out now but I will be back.

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