Whats the best places to get a Pinto big valve head done nowadays?
Also is it worth spending on a non injection head?
Cheers
Whats the best places to get a Pinto big valve head done nowadays?
Also is it worth spending on a non injection head?
Cheers
Depends how deep your pockets are, but you won't go far wrong with a head from Steve Curzon at Vulcan Engineering.
Not that deep really lol how much we talking for a Vulcan one? Also is a non injection head worth spending on?
There is a couple of places not to far from me Ric Woods and Impulse Developments, has anyone had a head done at these places?
ric wood is CNC heads, a head from him will work but cost you dear.
yes it is worth reworking a non injection head, gains not as with an injection head though.
most big valve heads out there are an improvement, most are the wrong shape to work really well though...................
Thanks for the replys guys, can you recommend any places Graham?
This is the Impulse one on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-2-0-P...gAAOSwY8NcimEs
Thanks for the replys guys, can you recommend any places Graham?
This is the Impulse one on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-2-0-P...gAAOSwY8NcimEs
looks pretty, but than again most do, the problem is everyone puts a lot of effort into making stuff shine, but polish and bling does not make power! you also need to know what sort of quality the valves are. if its for any sort of competition use you need good quality valves, there's a lot of rubbish out there, you wont get any better than valves made by G+S, or from REC (which are actually made by G+S) vulcan (steve Curzon) does a decent valve but i dont know where he gets them from. stuff ebays sellers isnt likely to be particularly good, neither does it seem are burtons, they tell me they have changed supplier and the quality is much better, but they wont tell me who supplies them except its not G+S.
what sort of spec engine is the head going on? and what is it to be used for?
i dont buy heads in, i do my own to suit whatever im doing with the rest of the engine. but if i had to buy one off the shelf id probably buy a vulcan one.
Yes really good points Graham, I get what your saying about ebay sellers. I was looking at the burton ones too but reading a few post on here kind of put me off, so they have changed there valves then. Its going on a road car but I do a fair few track days in the year, need to keep up with them pesky clios on the straights lol The bottom end is standard I think, it has a KC RL 21 cam and twin 45s, surprisingly it made 141 at the wheels when I had the carbs setup. A few people have told me the head is holding it back.
If your 141 at the wheels is good old fashioned bhp then I doubt your head is std. Do you mean RL 31 cam? That's Grahams cam of choice for a Pinto.Originally Posted by quicktime
There's no mention of what CFM the Impulse head flows so there's no way of knowing what power and performance to excpect.
As already mentioned Vulcan are probably one of the best heads to go for unless you go to either Brookes or Paul Gardner. Modifying heads is very Labour intensive and takes a good ammount of time and expence to achieve the correct results, that's why most seem to shy away from them nowadays. That's why CNC heads seem to be the thing of the day, however I don't know of anyone that's used a Pinto one.
Had the head off last year and it looked standard, although im not that clued up to be honest. Wish I was so I could just do the job myself, I could defo make shine without the power tho lol Brookes and Gardner, will check them out thanks
Personally since being on this forum Graham "The pinto Jedi Master " has been getting very good results with the Pinto head its been very interesting reading his builds and results. As its been said Burton arnt anything special do know Charlie @ CTM did Burtons heads for a long time but not sure if they still do them and as Graham says Vulcan and the Harris chaps do very good heads with proven results to. A while back i was quoted £1300 inc for a "full race head with springs and cam for upto 220 hp with supporting mods from the Harris chaps ... Id personally drop Graham a PM asking if he has time between MOT's to do you one !
I’d go with Graham if he has time great service.
Hi all thanks for all the replys chaps, yes I would love one done off Graham "The pinto Jedi Master "
As he is local to me i went with Ric Wood head with matching cam. He said he uses G+S valves, he also said the Burton ones do too now.
Been having trouble getting on this site and posting too, is it just me or anyone else having problems?
No it's not only you. It seems the site has been struggling for a few months now.
Yeah I was getting site not found or when I did get on and try to post it would just kick me out.
Seems good today tho, get posting
It's been really slow at times opening links, or just timing out too.
The RL21 cam is an earlier version of the RL31If your 141 at the wheels is good old fashioned bhp then I doubt your head is std. Do you mean RL 31 cam? That's Grahams cam of choice for a Pinto.
That could explain why Kent don't list it anymore on their site.
https://www.kentcams.com/part/RL21?m...l=26&engine=96
Be aware that manufacturers changed specs of cams during the years.
Well spotted Minilite Man.
I don't know Why Kent list the RL21 has a fast road / Rally cam when it has more duration and aggresive timing than the RL 32. Timing figures represent more like the GTS3, 4 or BF63 and German GP1 cams. The OP has n't said what cam he's using in his new CNC Big Valve head yet.
Its a matching cam for the head, he said I wouldn't get the most out of the head using my cam. I don't know that much about the cam other than piper cut them for him.
RL21 is most definately a fast road / rally cam, i had one in 3 engines years ago, performs very similar to an RL31, 160 ish HP with 36mm chokes, cast pistons and 10-11:1, pulls from low down like a 31.
bit misleading really unless head "matches" the bottom end ? as its about compression ratio. hopefully the head will give a suitable compression ratio to suit your (std ?) bottom end and cam is indeed suited to that combination.
Figures from Kents Data sheet. RL21. Fast road cam. 314 degrees duration, 11.92mm lift and 52/82 timing
HTE Race cam. 314 dergees duration 12.3mm lift and timing 51/83.
These specifications are very similar so either the figures are a misprint for the fast road cam or Kents sales team don't know what they are selling. No way should a FR cam have 314 degrees inlet duration. Incedentally they list the WR 40 as a race cam when it's much milder than both of these.
Kent list something like 32 different cam profiles for the Pinto just to confuse matters even more. I read an are article once on another forum by a Pinto specialist and he said a maximum of 5 cams would cover everything from fast road to full race and the only reason they had so many different profiles was so people could keep chopping and changing their cams to keep the suppliers sales figures up.
Last edited by Forest_rallying; 07-12-2019 at 09:09.
The timing figures for an RL21 are wrong too, its 100% a fast road / rally cam, a WR40 has more duration than an RL31 too.
What are the timing figures you have for the RL21 Erik?
RL31. 304 degrees duration and the WR40 295 degrees, again figures from Kents Data sheet.
I know what a WR 40 cam is because I had one in an engine for Road Rallies in the mid 80's. It was a cam that Ford used in some of the Group one engines and at one time could only be bought from RS dealers. It was a very free reving cam in the Pinto that would go way past 8000 RPM even on a mildly tuned head. Whether the Kent copy is ground the same is anyones guess!
Figures are wrong, for starters RL21 & 31 are asymetric cams, WR40 and Grp1 cams have longer duration and more overlap than both.....Steve Curson at Vulcan uses WR40's still in his engines as the next stage above his 165Hp RL31 cammed engines, id have to check my old Kent sheets for RL21...defo assymetric though so the timing and single duration figures in the link above are wrong.
nearly, you can port the same head differently, and maximise flow at different valve lifts. im doing a bmw head right now which will be used with a standard cam, a long rounded short turn works best there, but given a bigger cam its worth sacrificing a bit of low lift flow for big gains at higher lifts, with mega lift cam you can go way further still. so it could be argued they are selling a cam which matches the heads airflow/lift but unless you do something really radical that does not really apply to 99.9% of pintos
i suspect in this case its more a case of trying to sell a cam as well
The timing figures I quoted from the Kent Date sheet are for Inlet timing and duration and not exhaust. Duration is caluclated 52 +82 + 180 deg crankshaft rotation = 314 deg total duration which is what Kent quote for the cams mentioned.
When you refer to assymetric Eric, are you saying different inlet and exhaust timing and not different shape lobes as Piper did in the 80's?
If someone does n't agree with those figure then they need to contact Kent's technical department and tell them why. What I am saying is the RL21 timing figures are not for a FR cam. Take a look at any other cam manufacturer and you 'll see why. As for the WR 40 cam timing figures and duration they are quite mild on Kents copy of it's profile.
Different inlet & exhaust timing and duration, so yes different lobe shape also, lots of the cams kent list currently are assymetric
An asymetric cam has lobes that are asymetric, the open-ramp is of a different shape than the closing-ramp.
Cams that have different timingfigures for inlet and exhaust are cams that the manufacturer recommends to adjust the timing from the equal timing.
Camtiming for RL21 is inlet 52/82, exhaust 92/42 (figures for exhaust on Kent website are wrong).
Difference between these figures is 52-42=10. This is what is called (at least in the old days) a "S=-5" cam.
It means that the cam is advanced 5 degrees from the equal timing spec.
An RL21 cam with equal timing figures would be inlet 47/87 exhaust 87/47; overlap still is 94 degrees, duration still is 314 degrees. Now advance this equal timing figures cam 5 degrees and you get the timing figures for the actual RL21.
Reason for advancing the cam is to get better tractability at low revs especially with a lower CR than optimal (cast pistons). This was done years ago when the RL2 was launched.
The "S" figure is the timing away from TDC where the inlet valve is open the same amount as the exhaust valve. When the inletlobe has a different lift than the exhaust lobe this is not exactly true but you will get the idea.
The original WR40 cam was the homologated GP1 cam for the Mk2 RS2. The current "GP1" cam from Kent is a very different cam.
Hi all got the car all built up last weekend and had a good run out today, pulls nice and sound pretty good too. Need to get a proper rolling road setup tho, carbs doing a fair bit off poping at low revs. But runs really well, just needs a few tweeks I think.
Where are you thinking of going for a Rolling Road session. Are B&J still in Trafford Park?
Not sure pal, will take it to ric woods as the head is from him. Maybe in the new year now, be interesting to see what power it makes too.
I believe the CNC heads which Burton is selling coming from cncheads ( Ric ) but I am not sure.
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