User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Pinto cam curves

  1. #1
    Tyre Kicker Willi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    56
    Posts
    46
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

    Pinto cam curves

    Hi, I've found an Excel sheet which was created (not by me) to compare camshaft profiles. So i measured out some pinto cams I had lying around.

    Blue line is a stock 2000 / 1600 GT pinto cam

    Green is Kent FR 32

    Orange is Crane 22803-2

    Brown is Piper HR 300 (that's what is marked on the back of the cam anyway, old 80s profile I think)


    Column on the left = valve lift in Millimeters

    Bottom column = crankshaft degrees

    Auslass = Exhaust

    Einlass = Intake

    OT = TDC

    Kolben = Piston


    Maybe it`s useful for anyone. All cams were measured at Standard .20/.25 valve clearance in the same head which had the valve seats slightly recut so valve lift is a bit down due to altered rocker geometry.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Screenshot Pinto Nockenwellenvergleich.jpg‎  

    Last edited by Willi; 23-12-2019 at 16:33.

  2. #2
    Pole Position Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Administrator
    Miniliteman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    the Netherlands
    Posts
    4,888
    Thanks
    38
    Thanked 611 Times in 558 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    Hello, what setup did you use to measure the camshafts? Grtz, Leon.

  3. #3
    Tyre Kicker Willi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    56
    Posts
    46
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    Hi Leon, I used a degree wheel on the cam and a dti gauge together with a magnetic stand for the valve lift. Soft springs instead of the normal valve springs, and got the head clamped on the workbench. Took a measurement each 10 degree, that makes the resulting curves smooth enough.
    I will measure out an original Ford group one cam if I find the time.
    Regards, Willi

  4. #4
    Mechanic snapper1's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Chelmsford
    Age
    67
    Posts
    668
    Thanks
    27
    Thanked 50 Times in 48 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    Interesting...
    I run FR32 in one of my engines and always found it very tractable from low revs but will still pull hard at 7000, high lift, with just a little more duration to standard.

    The Piper BP300, very old school with no real increase in lift but loads more duration.
    Pretty much the opposite of what a Pinto needs

  5. #5
    Racer Decade Plus User

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Belgium
    Age
    56
    Posts
    2,118
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 197 Times in 169 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    Quote Originally Posted by snapper1 View Post
    Interesting...
    I run FR32 in one of my engines and always found it very tractable from low revs but will still pull hard at 7000, high lift, with just a little more duration to standard.

    The Piper BP300, very old school with no real increase in lift but loads more duration.
    Pretty much the opposite of what a Pinto needs
    This must be a very old BP300 profile or a mistake. The one I got on my PC looks complete different.

  6. #6
    Racer Decade Plus User Forest_rallying's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Derbyshire
    Posts
    2,438
    Thanks
    92
    Thanked 393 Times in 348 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    Quote Originally Posted by onyd View Post
    This must be a very old BP300 profile or a mistake. The one I got on my PC looks complete different.
    I have noticed with Piper they have updated their profiles but continue to use the same part numbers for their cams, BP270 or BP300 etc. When they first started their Piper Magnum range in the early 80's the number BP300 would be named after the cam duration but now that's not always the case. Very confusing for anyone wanting to compare profiles.

  7. #7
    TURBOSPORT SPONSOR Turbosport Subscriber
    Turbosport Moderator
    Turbosport Administrator
    Graham's Avatar
    My Race Car
    My 1st Project
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ely, Cambs
    Age
    56
    Posts
    25,110
    Thanks
    310
    Thanked 2,476 Times in 2,250 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    Quote Originally Posted by Forest_rallying View Post
    I have noticed with Piper they have updated their profiles but continue to use the same part numbers for their cams, BP270 or BP300 etc. When they first started their Piper Magnum range in the early 80's the number BP300 would be named after the cam duration but now that's not always the case. Very confusing for anyone wanting to compare profiles.
    like wise i installed a kent cam, it measured up quite different to the catalog specs, until i found a not much newer catalog

  8. #8
    Tyre Kicker Willi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    56
    Posts
    46
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    The Piper cam I had measured out was marked as a HR 300, not as a BP 300. And for sure a very old profile, I got it in the early nineties from a friend who had tried it in an otherwise stock mk2 RS engine. With not too much success...

  9. #9
    Pole Position Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Administrator
    Miniliteman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    the Netherlands
    Posts
    4,888
    Thanks
    38
    Thanked 611 Times in 558 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    The old Piper 300 cam is similar to the Kent FR1 which was meant to be used with twin carbs (and gave a smooth idle).

  10. #10
    Racer Decade Plus User

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Belgium
    Age
    56
    Posts
    2,118
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 197 Times in 169 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    Quote Originally Posted by Willi View Post
    The Piper cam I had measured out was marked as a HR 300, not as a BP 300. And for sure a very old profile, I got it in the early nineties from a friend who had tried it in an otherwise stock mk2 RS engine. With not too much success...
    With the duration and lift I see, it's indeed bot going to be a succes. HR was indeed a different (and stone age old) profile.

    RL31, BP300 and Newman 4,75, at least the one I've measured here, all the same profiles. Very good all round cams

  11. #11
    Racer Decade Plus User Forest_rallying's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Derbyshire
    Posts
    2,438
    Thanks
    92
    Thanked 393 Times in 348 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    Quote Originally Posted by onyd View Post
    With the duration and lift I see, it's indeed bot going to be a succes. HR was indeed a different (and stone age old) profile.

    RL31, BP300 and Newman 4,75, at least the one I've measured here, all the same profiles. Very good all round cams
    I have studied Newmans Date sheet and I am stuggling to get my head round some of the timing figures for their Race and Rally cams. Some of their timing figures are similar to other companies fast road cams, they have less duration and lift. Their advertised lift @ TDC seems a lot less too even though the timing and lift are similar.



    When we eventually get round to starting the 2.5 Duratec project I'll be looking for a suitable pair of cams to use, looking through their catologues it seems like I am entering a Minefield. Once again Kent are listing far too many cams.
    Last edited by Forest_rallying; 29-12-2019 at 18:08.

  12. #12
    Pole Position Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Administrator
    Miniliteman's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    the Netherlands
    Posts
    4,888
    Thanks
    38
    Thanked 611 Times in 558 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    Kent use a rocker ratio of 1:69 for the lift figures and a lift of 0.010" for their timing figures.
    Newman use a ratio of 1:58 and an unknown number of lift.
    Both will influence their camshaft data listed.

  13. #13
    Racer Decade Plus User Forest_rallying's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Derbyshire
    Posts
    2,438
    Thanks
    92
    Thanked 393 Times in 348 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    Quote Originally Posted by Miniliteman View Post
    Kent use a rocker ratio of 1:69 for the lift figures and a lift of 0.010" for their timing figures.
    Newman use a ratio of 1:58 and an unknown number of lift.
    Both will influence their camshaft data listed.
    I was comparing Duratec cams today MM and not Pinto ones for a change. It's all very confusing.

    I'll have a look at Newmans Pinto cam range over the coming days. I believe some of their cams are the old Emerald range from the Dave Walker days.

  14. #14
    TURBOSPORT SPONSOR Turbosport Subscriber
    Turbosport Moderator
    Turbosport Administrator
    Graham's Avatar
    My Race Car
    My 1st Project
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ely, Cambs
    Age
    56
    Posts
    25,110
    Thanks
    310
    Thanked 2,476 Times in 2,250 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    Quote Originally Posted by Forest_rallying View Post
    I believe some of their cams are the old Emerald range from the Dave Walker days.
    ,

    most have since been tweeked but yes, although to be fair i think they started out holbay profiles, at the end of the day you can only have so many variations on each type of road/rally/race cam

  15. #15
    Racer Decade Plus User

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Belgium
    Age
    56
    Posts
    2,118
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 197 Times in 169 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    Quote Originally Posted by Forest_rallying View Post
    I have studied Newmans Date sheet and I am stuggling to get my head round some of the timing figures for their Race and Rally cams. Some of their timing figures are similar to other companies fast road cams, they have less duration and lift. Their advertised lift @ TDC seems a lot less too even though the timing and lift are similar.



    When we eventually get round to starting the 2.5 Duratec project I'll be looking for a suitable pair of cams to use, looking through their catologues it seems like I am entering a Minefield. Once again Kent are listing far too many cams.
    I've not been "struggling" with the data out of catalogues, I've measured the profiles with electronics and can overlay them on my PC. So I know the real figures, not the one they use to advertise. For a long time I do understand these advertised figures anyway. All look Chinees to me. At least not reliable. Only CatCams data does match with my data.

  16. #16
    Spanner Monkey

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Australia
    Age
    50
    Posts
    293
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    Hi has anyone got a excel sheet graph for an rl 31 camshaft cheers mario

  17. #17
    Racer Decade Plus User Forest_rallying's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Derbyshire
    Posts
    2,438
    Thanks
    92
    Thanked 393 Times in 348 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    Quote Originally Posted by Miniliteman View Post
    Kent use a rocker ratio of 1:69 for the lift figures and a lift of 0.010" for their timing figures.
    Newman use a ratio of 1:58 and an unknown number of lift.
    Both will influence their camshaft data listed.
    I have had at look a Kent and Newmans quoted Rocker ratios for the Pinto and the Newman 4.75 cam would come out with approx 529 thou lift if the ratio was 1.69 and 513 thou lift if the ratio was 1.65 as quoted by Kent.

    As we all know with the Pinto engine different makes of Rockers with different shapes of pad will also alter the geometry so once again very confusing unless someone has patience to measure various combinations in a cylinder head. Then we get onto the valve length which once again will throw calculations out that won't be spotted by plotting the profiles of a cam on a computer.

    I haven't managed to find out any of the very old Holbay cam profiles yet, only the ones that some of Kents GTS range has copied.
    Last edited by Forest_rallying; 30-12-2019 at 11:19.

  18. #18
    Racer Decade Plus User

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Belgium
    Age
    56
    Posts
    2,118
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 197 Times in 169 Posts

    Re: Pinto cam curves

    Quote Originally Posted by Forest_rallying View Post
    I have had at look a Kent and Newmans quoted Rocker ratios for the Pinto and the Newman 4.75 cam would come out with approx 529 thou lift if the ratio was 1.69 and 513 thou lift if the ratio was 1.65 as quoted by Kent.

    As we all know with the Pinto engine different makes of Rockers with different shapes of pad will also alter the geometry so once again very confusing unless someone has patience to measure various combinations in a cylinder head. Then we get onto the valve length which once again will throw calculations out that won't be spotted by plotting the profiles of a cam on a computer.

    I haven't managed to find out any of the very old Holbay cam profiles yet, only the ones that some of Kents GTS range has copied.
    Fully agree. But I also always say, you need to instal the cam with the rocker the grinder had in mind. If you use BP300 with Kent followers you probably get a total different valve motion. But if Piper wanted this motion, they would have changed the camshaft profile, not the rocker to do exact the same.

    It is indeed possible to "personal" your profile using different rockers.

    I believe most profiles are copies, one from other and slightly modified etc.. but believe me, all those very small changes do not matter. Only when you got an old profile like the HR300 here on top and change it for a later design BP300 you get a real new engine.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts