Ceramic coated pistons

[r2vdh]

Hi Guys. Been looking into going the forged route however pistons and rods for my engine far exceed my budget at the moment

My question to you is whether ceramic coating is worth it on cast pistons running 1bar boost.

Engine is a 2.8 v6 cologne. Efi controlled everything is arp'd for strength as the rods are known to be the weaklink

Thanks

[katana]

IMO ceramic coating is excellent for heat rejection but its detonation that kills cast pistons, breaks the ring lands where coatings are absent. Its either restrict the boost, change the pistons or look for alternative OEM forged pistons that could be used ( but fairly unlikely!)

[Graham]

as above, ceramic coating will do nothing to strengthen the weakest link in the piston and that's the ring lands

[Forest_rallying]

There's no free lunch!

Have you looked at the price of the Woossner forged piston and Rod combination that someone like PEC sells? I wouldn't imagine cast pistons would stand anywhere near the boost you are asking however well the fuel and ignition were mapped.

[r2vdh]

IMO ceramic coating is excellent for heat rejection but its detonation that kills cast pistons, breaks the ring lands where coatings are absent. Its either restrict the boost, change the pistons or look for alternative OEM forged pistons that could be used ( but fairly unlikely!)

The ignition and fuel is well controlled and I have been reliably informed that the cast pistons and rods will take 1bar.
But like you say detonation is the killer and can usually be caused by engine hotspots and bad ignition/fueling.

Its an interim cheap fix as I have a spare engine im rebuilding over the next year.

[Dyno]

The ignition and fuel is well controlled and I have been reliably informed that the cast pistons and rods will take 1bar.
But like you say detonation is the killer and can usually be caused by engine hotspots and bad ignition/fueling.

Its an interim cheap fix as I have a spare engine im rebuilding over the next year.

My experiences are that 1 bar is NOT so reliable anymore with a Ford Pinto of V6 piston. I had a set made for my friends 2,6 Ltr V6 Cologne at DP in Greece, paid almost zero to nothing and could have made any shape. Mine are 8,5/1 CR

[stevieturbo]

Cast pistons can work fine....but it very much depends on the makeup and design of that cast piston

[Forest_rallying]

I remember in the early 90's someone doing a Track day at Donnington in a Brooklyns Capri 2.8 that had a Turbo Tecnics conversion. It lasted about 3 laps before it melted one of it's standard pistons. Needless to say the pistons were designed for a 70's / 80's normally aspirated engine.

[stevieturbo]

Melted pistons are a poor tuning issue. Not piston strength or design.

[Graham]

Melted pistons are a poor tuning issue. Not piston strength or design.

I agree, but pinto/2.8 pistons both have large slots and poor support for the ringlands, with the best tune in the world at 1 bar boost its only a matter of time before they fail

[Dyno]

I agree, but pinto/2.8 pistons both have large slots and poor support for the ringlands, with the best tune in the world at 1 bar boost its only a matter of time before they fail

Correct, and that's exact what usual happens with the Pinto or V6 piston. Some other make engines have a much better design and can stand a lot more boost. Sadly, not the V6 or Pinto. All you need is a set of good (forged) pistons and you got a reliable engine. (or stop round 700 Mbar)

[stevieturbo]

I agree, but pinto/2.8 pistons both have large slots and poor support for the ringlands, with the best tune in the world at 1 bar boost its only a matter of time before they fail

Yes...but those slots will not cause them to melt.

Breaking and melting are very different things, which is why you look for pistons without the large slots

[Dyno]

Yes...but those slots will not cause them to melt.

Breaking and melting are very different things, which is why you look for pistons without the large slots

That's correct. They don't melt, the ring land collaps and the second ring start pushing on the oil rings. You get a lot of blue smoke out of the engine and that's the point you know the second ring land has let go. I've never had a melted piston in a turbo Pinto.

As far as I know they all have these large slots. I've never seen a 2,9 V6 piston but probably the same as all other in design.

[Graham]

Yes...but those slots will not cause them to melt.

Breaking and melting are very different things

i realize that but how many time do you hear someone speak of an "engine blow up" but engines almost never actually actually blow up

[stevieturbo]

i realize that but how many time do you hear someone speak of an "engine blow up" but engines almost never actually actually blow up

Yep...but "melted pistons" is pretty specific.

Some engines that do "blow up" are pretty cool though.

[Willi]

I've never seen a 2,9 V6 piston but probably the same as all other in design.

Yes, they are…

[Dyno]

Looks like mine hahaha

[Forest_rallying]

Yep...but "melted pistons" is pretty specific.

Some engines that do "blow up" are pretty cool though.

I used the word melted piston has a generic comment regarding the 2.8 Capri, maybe I should have said piston broke!

[rallyrob]

piston broke!

Sorry to hear you're piston broke.

Sorry I couldn't resist it.

[mad for pinto]

If you want better pistons you might be in luck if you live in Australia wot bore size are you on ???
Burt Munro did great things..(yes i know he was N.Zealander)
It is not free but rebore and toyota pick up metric pistons could be a work around (you would need to find a good machine shop to mill or lathe crown down)
I think they take up 21 psi boost.......ask around on local pick up / ute web sites we never had that engine in the uk but im sure people used to use them in pinto
Wiseco Single Piston TOYOTA-20R-22R Approximately AU $233.23
Pistons and Rings Fits 81-84 Toyota Pick Up 2.4L 22R Approximately AU $117.70
$117.70 x 2 =235.40 for 8 pistons plus rebore plus crown machining .......

[mad for pinto]

If you want better pistons you might be in luck if you live in Australia wot bore size are you on ???
Burt Munro did great things..(yes i know he was N.Zealander)
It is not free but rebore and toyota pick up metric pistons could be a work around (you would need to find a good machine shop to mill or lathe crown down)
I think they take up 21 psi boost.......ask around on local pick up / ute web sites we never had that engine in the uk but im sure people used to use them in pinto
Wiseco Single Piston TOYOTA-20R-22R Approximately AU $233.23
Pistons and Rings Fits 81-84 Toyota Pick Up 2.4L 22R Approximately AU $117.70
$117.70 x 2 =235.40 for 8 pistons plus rebore plus crown machining .......
http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=165466

[mad for pinto]

http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthre...ght=r22+piston