Pinto 2.0L making resonance/vibration in cockpit

[Aranckashi]

Hello all,
I'm about to complete a pinto rebuilt (standard) on my Ford Taunus wagon and I can't figure out what makes this vibration.
Engine starts and runs well but feels like it resonates. Much more between 1500 and 2000 rpm when accelerating (car not moving). Cockpit vibrates all over, especially seats, doors and steering wheel.

What I already checked:

Engine mounts
Gearbox mount
Exhaust mounts
Alternator, water pump, etc (belt removed)
Inlet/outlet manifold
Sparkplugs
Ignition timing

Things I've noticed and have done that could maybe be part of the problem is a lil' click sound around valves when running, and I often jacked the engine up by the gearbox instead of the sump.. My fear is can it bents the crankshaft ?

[Graham]

i cant believe you bent the crank shaft jacking it up

[rallyrob]

Flywheel not tightened properly?

[Aranckashi]

Engine and gearbox are strongly connected by the case so this is what I'm telling me too. Hope you're right.

Could be crank bearings ?
Can a simple oil pressure test tell me all is ok on this side ?

[Aranckashi]

I haven't opened and checked this area cause got no lifting deck.
Any idea how to verify this in an other way ?

[Miniliteman]

Do you have the vacuum connection to the distributor fitted? (to base of carb).
If yes, remove it and put a small bolt in it so it doesn't draw false air.
And check again.

[Aranckashi]

Do you have the vacuum connection to the distributor fitted? (to base of carb).
If yes, remove it and put a small bolt in it so it doesn't draw false air.
And check again.

Vacuum connector is fitted to the back of the inlet manifold just under the carb. I'm confused because I've always heard vacuum needs to be connected and must be only disconnected when tuning the ignition.
I'll give a try.

[Miniliteman]

When setting the timing you need to disconnect the vacuum.

[Aranckashi]

When setting the timing you need to disconnect the vacuum.

Thanks Miniliteman, it feels much more stable !

So if I understand well I simply need to remove the hose and block both holes on manifold and distributor, is it right ?

[Graham]

no need to block the distributor, in fact no need to block either pipe if it will stay running

[Miniliteman]

Thanks Miniliteman, it feels much more stable !

So if I understand well I simply need to remove the hose and block both holes on manifold and distributor, is it right ?

No. It was just a test if your issues are related to the ignition.
It seems the ignition timing above idle (1500-2000 rpm) is not good.
Check again the static ignitiontiming (timing may be too advanced) and the workings of the distributor; advance mechanism (bob weights and springs inside) and also the positioning of the distributor. Does the rotor (is it the correct one and not broken) point towards lead no.1 with the points just opening and the piston at TDC?

[Aranckashi]

No. It was just a test if your issues are related to the ignition.
It seems the ignition timing above idle (1500-2000 rpm) is not good.
Check again the static ignitiontiming (timing may be too advanced) and the workings of the distributor; advance mechanism (bob weights and springs inside) and also the positioning of the distributor. Does the rotor (is it the correct one and not broken) point towards lead no.1 with the points just opening and the piston at TDC?

I think I understand now the problem, I have switched from ignition point to electronic recently.. Timing was probably not set very well.
Rotor is brand new and towards lead no 1 yep. Will double check everything again.
Big thanks :-)

[Aranckashi]

no need to block the distributor, in fact no need to block either pipe if it will stay running

Understood. So fitting like this must be ok. Tell me if I'm wrong.

[therealpinto]

Usually you want to use a fitting that is directly on the carburetor foot, to give what is called "ported vacuum", meaning you have less vacuum at idle but as soon as the throttle plates move, you get more vacuum.

But if you want to use plenum/manifold vacuum, I would suggest using the other connection that is blocked off. The one you use now, shares a port with the crankcase ventilation and I presume that the vacuum signal there can be weaker because of the flow from the crankcase.

Gustaf

[Miniliteman]

As Gustaf said for the distributor you need a ported vacuum. This is a connection on the carb body that gives no vacuum at idle (so no advance) as it is located just above the throttle plate when that is closed.
What carb are you using?

[Aranckashi]

Usually you want to use a fitting that is directly on the carburetor foot, to give what is called "ported vacuum", meaning you have less vacuum at idle but as soon as the throttle plates move, you get more vacuum.

But if you want to use plenum/manifold vacuum, I would suggest using the other connection that is blocked off. The one you use now, shares a port with the crankcase ventilation and I presume that the vacuum signal there can be weaker because of the flow from the crankcase.

Gustaf

These are good informations Gustaf, thanks. In this case it must be better to use carb foot.

[Aranckashi]

As Gustaf said for the distributor you need a ported vacuum. This is a connection on the carb body that gives no vacuum at idle (so no advance) as it is located just above the throttle plate when that is closed.
What carb are you using?

Yes that's what I'm trying to understand on the carburetor. Problem is the pinto come from a Sierra and electronic stuff were removed. The distributor is not original by the way. Carb is a Weber 30/34 DFTH. Don't know if I need to swap for a 32/36 or simply leave it.

[Miniliteman]

The original (electronic) distributor and the DFTH can only be used if you keep the ESC2 computer.
You should replace it all with a normal type distributor (with advance mechanism inside), guess you already did that and a DGV/DGAV/DGMS/DGAS type of carb which has the ported vacuum connection.

[Aranckashi]

The original (electronic) distributor and the DFTH can only be used if you keep the ESC2 computer.
You should replace it all with a normal type distributor (with advance mechanism inside), guess you already did that and a DGV/DGAV/DGMS/DGAS type of carb which has the ported vacuum connection.

Ok so I have checked the distributor and ignition timing. Advance mechanism seems working. Everything is well set and the vibration is still more or less present even while playing with distributor. One thing I have noticed on the magnet ring of the electronic ignition is that magnets are not well centered on curves, I don't know if it's important (?) see image.

Thanks about this advice. We can really notice the vibration starting rapidly when accelerating so I hope the issue come from this vacuum advance.
I think a 34/36 DGV will be good. Is a auto-choke better ?

[Miniliteman]

Difficult to see what's what in that photo.
The last magnetic triggers I have seen (even the Aldon Ignitor) are crap.
To rule out the electronic ignition, fit a set of points with the condensor and a 3 Ohm sports coil.
(you probably should have that already with that ignition as the coil for the Ford electronic ignition will probably not compatible)

[Aranckashi]

Difficult to see what's what in that photo.
The last magnetic triggers I have seen (even the Aldon Ignitor) are crap.
To rule out the electronic ignition, fit a set of points with the condensor and a 3 Ohm sports coil.
(you probably should have that already with that ignition as the coil for the Ford electronic ignition will probably not compatible)

I tried with the point (and a 3 ohm Bosch blue coil), same as before.
A friend has noticed that the resonance comes right after starting the engine. In fact we constantly feel it and between 1500 rpm and 2500 rpm it's getting worse.

I asked Graham but no reply from him, could be crankshaft bearings ?
Can a simple oil pressure test tells me all is ok on this side ?

[Graham]

I asked Graham but no reply from him, could be crankshaft bearings ?
Can a simple oil pressure test tells me all is ok on this side ?

sorry i havnt seen any questions/messages. oil pressure check doesnt tend to show much if only one bearing is shot.

do you get a noise with your vibration? a big end makes a knocking noise, mains tend to rumble

[Aranckashi]

sorry i havnt seen any questions/messages. oil pressure check doesnt tend to show much if only one bearing is shot.

do you get a noise with your vibration? a big end makes a knocking noise, mains tend to rumble

No problem.

No knocking, no noise, but it rumbles a bit.

[Miniliteman]

Where do you have the vacuum-hose to the distributor connected to? Still to the inlet manifold?

[Aranckashi]

Where do you have the vacuum-hose to the distributor connected to? Still to the inlet manifold?

Yes. I've tried also to connect it to the other connection on the manifold as has said therealpinto but nothing changed.

In fact when accelerating it doesn't really resonates, rpms go up and down quickly with no problem. It's clearly rumble/roar I feel in the cockpit and right after I turned the key at idle.

[Aranckashi]

Usually you want to use a fitting that is directly on the carburetor foot, to give what is called "ported vacuum", meaning you have less vacuum at idle but as soon as the throttle plates move, you get more vacuum.

But if you want to use plenum/manifold vacuum, I would suggest using the other connection that is blocked off. The one you use now, shares a port with the crankcase ventilation and I presume that the vacuum signal there can be weaker because of the flow from the crankcase.

Gustaf

Hey Gustaf, it seems to work a bit better attached to the other connection (plenum/manifold vacuum) as you said.
When setting ignition timing we must disconnect the hose from the vacuum distributor but what about the leak created on the manifold ? Doesn't it distort the ignition timing we are setting ?

[katana]

When setting ignition timing we must disconnect the hose from the vacuum distributor but what about the leak created on the manifold ? Doesn't it distort the ignition timing we are setting ?

Yes it will to a degree! Pull the vac. hose from the rubber connector and plug the rubber with a bolt - M4 should do it!

[therealpinto]

Agreed, but also check the timing with the vacuum advance connected. That is the true timing you will see at idle, and that is good to know. If possible, also check the how the timing changes when slowly increasing the rpm.

Since you have a "non standard" dizzy with the vacuum advance connected in a "non standard way" you might need to change things. Either modify the dizzy to limit the vacuum advance, or set another base timing.

Gustaf

[Aranckashi]

Agreed, but also check the timing with the vacuum advance connected. That is the true timing you will see at idle, and that is good to know. If possible, also check the how the timing changes when slowly increasing the rpm.

Since you have a "non standard" dizzy with the vacuum advance connected in a "non standard way" you might need to change things. Either modify the dizzy to limit the vacuum advance, or set another base timing.

Gustaf

Great thanks Gustaf.
I understand a bit better now how it works. So vacuum advance must begin to work from the time I press the pedal and not at idle.

[Graham]

Great thanks Gustaf.
I understand a bit better now how it works. So vacuum advance must begin to work from the time I press the pedal and not at idle.

quite often the vac will still advance the timing at idle, one of the reasons you set the timing vac disconnected

[Aranckashi]

quite often the vac will still advance the timing at idle, one of the reasons you set the timing vac disconnected

Doesn't it tuned when I reconnect the vacuum and idle does not change still the same ?

[mrmk2]

Did you sort this one out?

[Aranckashi]

Did you sort this one out?

Hi. I changed the dizzy for a brand new one cause I noticed current used was playing with axle. It did improved a bit. Have you got the same issue ?

[mrmk2]

Hi mate, no I do not have this problem. Just wondered what made this problem. Thanks for answer

[Aranckashi]

Oh ok :-) Also pinto engine used to run rough I heard.
No worries !