Project dyno

[Graham]

During the early part of lockdown i was browsing ebay looking for flowbenches/flowbench spares, when i spotted an ebay add for a superflow engine dyno, complete with a sound proof cell, with a starting price of £13,500.

my first thought, wow thats cheap! id seen others for sale but they were more like £30,000 just for the dyno.
second thought was who the hell is going to by that with the country under lockdown?
thirdly i didnt have that sort of money, potentially i could of borrowed it, but having just lost 90% of our custom and furloughed almost all my staff i didnt dare spend £13, let alone 1000 times that.

so the add expired and i did nothing, well almost, as i know people with dynos, and as someone interested in engine development it has to be the ultimate tool for me to own, my mind was racing.... i was watching loads of videos around dyno testing engines, yes i know rolling roads are good, but a dyno is better for development plus my landlords have stated specifically that i cannot have one on noise grounds.

Superflow who are basically the only suppliers of engines dynos for the performance car engine market practically dont exist outside of the USA, but eventually i came across a uk supplier, came down to earth with a bump through when they told me a new 902 is £60,000 plus shipping, taxes and VAT, and thats just a basic dyno package itself.

a few more weeks went by and the Dyno re appeared on ebay, work was still rubbish, but i had stopped worrying we would go bankrupt literally anyday and i figured it was worth a bit of a lowball punt on the dyno, if we got in to real trouble financially i would sell a couple of my cars to recover the cost

so i stuck in a bid and went to look at it. i got it cheaper than the asking price, but flip side of that was i had to dismantle it all and transport it the 130miles back home myself. My Mate and MOT tester gave me a hand, to break it down in pieces, and transport it back, it took 4 days, we filled his citroen relay van twice, my sprinter 4 times and my car trailer twice

[Graham]

we had to get pretty inventive getting big heavy parts of the exhaust extraction system and chimney down on the deck, everything about this is super heavy , health and safety would of had a fit, but its all back in ely now.

we have started a video diary about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utUp_9-I69k&t=90s

[mrmk2]

Can't wait to see some nice Pintos on this!

[meXEco]

Awesome-sounds a bit of a bargain G.

[Graham]

Awesome-sounds a bit of a bargain G.

cost wise yes, ive got the original invoice for the sound proof cell, with the extraction the cell alone cost £10,000 in in 1987!!

the chap that dyno'd the Lotus twin cam for me bought a similar used dyno from USA, it cost him £12,000 but by the time it was installed and working he had spent £90,000.

i know im not going to be able to just assemble it all and have it working, so im just going to have to cross my fingers as to how much i have to spend to get it up and running.

originally it belonged to a company called Competition Engine Services or CES in Aylesbury, at some point they moved to Wales, that company was bought by a classic Alfa Romeo specialist based somewhere on the south coast of England, who wanted car prep and dyno facilities in the midlands, so CES was moved to Burton on Trent, about the same time the original operator passed away, a couple of replacement operators were found but it seems they didnt know what they were doing. at this point the owners decided to shut the site down, and sell on the dyno. teh operators who didnt know what they were doing couldnt get it working, which is why you may of spotted two control consoles. im no expert but i know that as its stands it cant of possibly worked, someone has cut the wiring to load cell which measures torque and the servo valve which controls the load on the water brake is partly dismantled. the real worry is the electronics they are very very dated and replacement bits cost a fortune when they can be found always assuming you can find someone who understands it. superflow do make an updated control system to give this old 901 the function of a new 902, but i hate to think what that costs, probably more than i paid for what i have.

[rallyrob]

Competition Engine Services in Aylesbury checked a pinto crank for a friend of mine in about 1987-88. I then bought it off of him an built it into the same block it came out of only to find out they'd supplied the wrong size main bearing shells. I wondered why as it warmed up the oil pressure dropped off, I ended up taking the sump off it insitu and undid 1 of the main caps to find that out. Another new set of mains, the right size this time and all was good after that. Funnily enough I've still got that same crank in that same early pinto block.

Pretty sure it's seized now at least partially anyway though, last time I put a spanner on the front crank pulley it didn't sound clever at all.

[Miniliteman]

Graham, as long as you have all the manuals and schematics an experienced electronics engineer should get it all to work provided it is complete. Good Luck!

[5tox]

That looks a seriously cool piece of kit

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[katana]

I did wonder 'two control desks - that's just greedy! LOL!

I got involved with a bike shop dyno cell which was in a particularly noise sensitive area and the owner just wouldn't accept that what I was proposing in terms of sound proofing was required ie. its cost was waaaay beyond what he wanted to spend! Its also the air intake and exhaust silencing that is sooo difficult but 10 years on he's pretty much gone half as much again over my spec's but he does test turbo bikes to nearly a 1000hp @ RW so it was necessary!

Agree with Miniliteman - if you have the manuals / wiring diagrams, re-commissioning shouldn't need NASA type engineering. Good luck with it as I remember David Vizard being a big fan of Superflow dyno's and he sort of knows his stuff!

[Graham]

I did wonder 'two control desks - that's just greedy! LOL!

I got involved with a bike shop dyno cell which was in a particularly noise sensitive area and the owner just wouldn't accept that what I was proposing in terms of sound proofing was required

noise is going to be an issue, as the crow flies, my landlord only lives about 150 yards away, yikes!! i hope that by taking the exhaust straight up through the high roof of the building through 2 foot dia pipe that will largely take care of itself, intake is also going to be difficult, the cell has an intake duct big enough to walk through which takes the air through two 90' degree bends, thats going to be a real struggle to accommodate, as i only have one external wall, but i cant put anything outside, im going to have to try and snake the intake around inside the building and just suck the incoming air through a fair size window, i think i will get away with swapping the window for a set of louvers.

where it really is going to get fun is i will have to install the dyno cell inside a room barely any bigger than the cell itself. this is because of a lack of space, other than this one room if i put it almost anywhere else i will loose a considerable amount of usable floor space, which im rapidly running out of having installed a large number of vehicle lifts ( we have six in total, 1x 4 post and 5x 2 post) My units have few external walls and one of the internals walls with a neighboring unit is only studwork, i dont have much choice where to put it, i have to try and squeeze it into a store room, which if im lucky will help contain the noise, rather than spread it around the whole building. i would like to be able to run it during the day, but with our office and reception literally only feet away that might not be possible, pushing me into running the dyno early evenings, just when my landlord is most likely to notice!

[katana]

Unfortunately i'm not an expert in sound proofing and acoustics, just what i've learnt / picked up over the years in architecture. Sound pressure is attenuated with dense / heavy materials ie. brick / blockwork, lighter materials in combination ie. multiple layers of plasterboard with layers of different densities of mineral fibre insulations all between and/or secured to separated studwork - there should not be physical contact or dense materials continuous across the width of the wall. Lagging of pipes / ducts is also of value to minimise sound vibrations 'escaping'. If possible, absorption type silencers should be included in exhaust ducts with bends added - sound likes straight lines, bends introduce longer paths and reflections that lower sound energy.

I've seen the potential room you posted elsewhere - if you could line the walls / ceiling with additional studwork and mineral fibre batt insulation before the dyno cell is constructed inside it but not touching the new walls, it'll help. If the dyno 'machinery' in the cell can be mounted on isolating feet, will help attenuate sound transmitted through the concrete floor. Air intake could come from the roof, maybe if a 180 deg. bend snorkel end intake was added and obviously positioned a reasonable distance from the exhaust. Remember, any mechanical extraction must be balanced by non mechanical intake to avoid any pressurisation / low pressurisation effects in the cell that will affect results.

Good luck!

[wildo105e]

This looks a great project to get it working and use it, can't say i know much about them but they do intrigue me as they seem like a black art along with rolling roads, mapping ecu's and professional wiring looms.

[Graham]

doesn't look much but we have some reasonably significant progress, i borrowed some acrows and hired a disc cutter and cut a hole in the wall of what will be the dyno cell room.

reason being the room a joins our office, so not only is impractical to wheel engines through the office, but its simply impossible due to the positioning of the office and cell doors, let alone actually assemble the cell, so now we can actually start putting it together

[katana]

LOL's - have disc cutter - will cause damage! I trust a structural engineer designed the lintel ? ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . only pulling yer leg!

[rallyrob]

I trust a structural engineer designed the lintel ? ? ? .

Lol.. Do you think a structural engineer designed the wooden lintels above the windows in my bungalow that's been standing for nearly 100years.

[katana]

Lol.. Do you think a structural engineer designed the wooden lintels above the windows in my bungalow that's been standing for nearly 100years.

I was being ironic but in your case - no, an engineer probably didn't and they are probably 3x as strong as actually needed to be because of it!
Its because of builders like those who built your bungalow (indian word btw) that we have no ancient oak forests left - hope you are happy ! LOL!

[rallyrob]

I was being ironic but in your case - no, an engineer probably didn't and they are probably 3x as strong as actually needed to be because of it!
Its because of builders like those who built your bungalow (indian word btw) that we have no ancient oak forests left - hope you are happy ! LOL!

Ironi is a wonderful thing, I thought you were just taking the piss.

Funny thing is they're not even oak lintels, they're oregon pine.

I thought it was the wooden naval war ships that used up all the ancient oak forests.

[stevieturbo]

Definitely get the soundproofing right from the outset, the last thing you want is noise complaints forcing even more expensive actions.

And using roof space to install large silencers to kill any noise from that front as well both for engine noise and airflow through the dyno itself.

As for controls, I think there are other companies who offer control systems for dynos, so if for some reason SF could not offer something, there may be others who can ?

I'd say the likes of Gerry Gaffney up in Fyfe who sells a lot of dynos could probably advise/source ?

Sounds like a great investment though, at a very keen price.

[Graham]

I was being ironic but in your case - no, an engineer probably didn't and they are probably 3x as strong as actually needed to be because of it!
:

for sure. looking at how skinny most lintels are, the I beam RSJ i used is about 500% over engineered for the application.

[katana]

for sure. looking at how skinny most lintels are, the I beam RSJ i used is about 500% over engineered for the application.

LOL - And some! For the actual weight on it, a 1 course PS Concrete lintel would have been fine ( info for future extensions LOL!) It's nice to see someone 'over' spec'ing rather than constantly having to tell contractors - No, a 4x2" will not hold two storeys of brickwork, although it would - for a short while LOL!

[Graham]

LOL - And some! For the actual weight on it, a 1 course PS Concrete lintel would have been fine ( info for future extensions LOL!) It's nice to see someone 'over' spec'ing rather than constantly having to tell contractors - No, a 4x2" will not hold two storeys of brickwork, although it would - for a short while LOL!

beauty was i used what i had so it cost me nothing

[Graham]

starting to make some decent progress, main cell walls, and all bar one roof panel are in place

its all held together with pop rivets and lots of tigerseal. those roof panels are seriously heavy, i dont know what they weigh, but they make pintos feel lightweight



the cell doesnt touch the room walls and its sitting on rubber to reduce noise transfer into the building itself.



that big duct is the air/exhaust extraction




hole in the side of the cell will be air intake via a set of louvers



below we are outside the cell looking down towards the window which will serve as air intake from outside the building

[katana]

Weight is good ! Sealing all joints is good ! Good progress

[Graham]

its moved on a bit, the cell itself is more or less complete, intake louvers are fitted and air intake done all bar replacing the external window with another set of louvers all be it the external ones will be fixed. started on the exhaust extraction









ive got to extend the steel frame work up, and fit a large plate with big hole in it, that will support the extractor fan assembly and all the pipework above, as well as giving me a platform to jack the upper part of the chimney up incase i ever need to pull the fan assembly out for maintenance

[rallyrob]

Looking good so far Graham...

[piekey]

My good friend Mr Phil Price at Connaughtcompetionengines.cu.uk has recently had a Dyno upgrade, having removed the same kit as you are using there Graham.
He may be able to help with spares , kit or info on your exciting new project.
Catch Phil at Connaught on 01795 843802 home of the Warrior engines.

[waverunner]

Looks like a safe room , good job

[Graham]

My good friend Mr Phil Price at Connaughtcompetionengines.cu.uk has recently had a Dyno upgrade, having removed the same kit as you are using there Graham.
He may be able to help with spares , kit or info on your exciting new project.
Catch Phil at Connaught on 01795 843802 home of the Warrior engines.

i did and a deal has been done, collecting it all on saturday

[rallyrob]

My good friend Mr Phil Price at Connaughtcompetionengines.cu.uk has recently had a Dyno upgrade, having removed the same kit as you are using there Graham.
He may be able to help with spares , kit or info on your exciting new project.
Catch Phil at Connaught on 01795 843802 home of the Warrior engines.

i did and a deal has been done, collecting it all on saturday

Excellent, that was a good connection

Does that mean you've got 2 of everything now then?

[Graham]

Excellent, that was a good connection

Does that mean you've got 2 of everything now then?

no it means i either have 1 of something or 3!

Connaught have the same dyno cart/absorber as me but have updated all the control stuff to more modern kit. it wasnt cheap, but it gives me a good known working front end to the system complete with computer/software etc.

Phil said to me the only real differences between what he had and now has is that the new stuff is a bit quicker/easier to use, and it will go past 10,000rpm. The 901 electronics cannot cope with the extra digit so your limited to 10k. actually phil told me you can make the early system go past 10, by fudging settings, but it gives an incorrect torque figure. not that that is going to bother me with the ancient old lumps of iron i will be testing

[onecamohv]

wow this is THE dream that very very few get to experience owning - nice job Graham looking forward to following this!

[rallyrob]

no it means i either have 1 of something or 3!

Connaught have the same dyno cart/absorber as me but have updated all the control stuff to more modern kit. it wasnt cheap, but it gives me a good known working front end to the system complete with computer/software etc.

Phil said to me the only real differences between what he had and now has is that the new stuff is a bit quicker/easier to use, and it will go past 10,000rpm. The 901 electronics cannot cope with the extra digit so your limited to 10k. actually phil told me you can make the early system go past 10, by fudging settings, but it gives an incorrect torque figure. not that that is going to bother me with the ancient old lumps of iron i will be testing

Excellent, the computer and software etc is a real bonus of an update to the analogue bits you had then.


And I doubt you would have found many engines that'll rev past 10000rpm anyway.

[Graham]

its ancient technology, but so cool to look at, well in my getting old eyes anyway

[rallyrob]

its ancient technology, but so cool to look at, well in my getting old eyes anyway

Looks like something out of Star Trek from the mod 70's

[stevieturbo]

Are all 3 the same or different ?

[Graham]

back of a consol

[wildo105e]

Think you have cornered the market there.


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[Graham]

Are all 3 the same or different ?

all same, just one has throttle lever missing, i have it here somewhere........

[waverunner]

Thing is, if we're still using retro engines, it must be still good enough for them?

[Graham]

Thing is, if we're still using retro engines, it must be still good enough for them?

yes, its just like the old retro engines we are using, still functions ok, just not as well as modern kit. but if it can read engine speed and torque then it can give you power figures. Its the data side of things thats really moved on.
just in the same way that we used to tune engines by ear and looking at spark plugs, then came CO meters, and computerized rolling roads. although even there my first injected 2002 was mapped by dave walker, no such thing as O2 sensors at the rolling road, and the CO meter kept crapping out, we had never heard of meassuring EGT either, so it was mapped like you do timing he just added fuel until the power stopped going up! nowdays there practically nothing you cant log.

the 901 is basically obsolete as various bits are unobtainable or no one knows how to fix them. its a bit like taking a 1990s computer running windows 95 down to PC world and asking them to fix it, your just got told "sorry mate its too old buy a new one."