When we change the engine we will check everything
Could of been oil starvation, but its not really been pulling g's. It has an external oil filter and coolet so could be issue with oil level being too low when running.
Could be just a dodgy bearing
Will strip the old engine and see what the issue is
Well i collect the engine on Thursday its a newly built 2068cc T series spec is as follows
Engine/Box
-2067cc forged using aged block, bored with torque plate
-Block decked by several mm
-Ceramic coated Arias Forged pistons with Moly side skirts
-Pauter custom rods (changed rod ratio) rated at 250hp per rod
-ARP Mains, big end and head studs
-Knife edged and balanced crank, fine balanced to 10k rpm
-Alloy sump
-Extra breather on front of block
-Wire ring grooves, stainless wire rings
-Copper headgasket with custom oil sealing
-New head casting taken and ported to the highest level by Sabre Heads, Roger this is Grants old engine
-Oversized valves (Stainless steel one piece)
-Double valve springs with custom caps
-Custom race grind cams
-Special cam belt (kevlar extra wide) with modified lower pulleys to suit
-Vernier pulleys
-Set up with 36-1 pulley and crank sensor for better accuracy on aftermarket ECU (may not fit in my engine bay tbc)
-4.5kg Billet flywheel
-AP Twin place clutch with custom bearing carrier (may use my setup though)
-PG1 220 box ratios, built with new bearings, syncros and type B Torsen. Shimmed correctly have a W4 box so may change the final drive and get a K4 or C6
-Cut down custom engine loom, losing all uneeded wires
-LS7 coils and custom leads with custom bracket
- Daihatsu Charade altenator under inlet (std is under exhaust but my charge cooler is in the way)
Ok, so i have done some silly things in my life. Jumped out of a plane naked, woke up on a dance floor dressed in a sumo suit whilst the cleaner was cleaning around me etc etc
However i have never been so embarressed as when i just got the call about my engine, seems a distinct lack of oil was the reason for the failure. It had a mere 1lt of oil in the sump, which would explain the "knocking noise" from the engine.
Worst still is that the Turbo is pretty much seized solid and as its a roller bearing turbo and looks to be junk !
So a very expensive mistake, simply not checking the oil after an oil leak (return pipe from turbo) and a faulty oil pressure sensor and oil switch (Light on stack doesnt work and ecu display was set to the wrong oil pressure)...... [Censored] shit [Censored] [Censored]
Anyway the good news is the new engine should be fitted in the next day or so then a replacement turbo needs to be sourced and fitted.
I have bought
A new clutch, helix rated to 425lbft, its a 6 paddle so i hope its more than digital
A custom Inlet with bigger inlet tracks, 660cc injectors still though (may or may not fit)
Placed an order for a 60litre pro alloy fuel tank
New pressure switch for oil
Then we can wind the bloody thing up and break the 450bhp barrier, i can sleep a happy man as long as the wife doesnt find the receipts
I have thoughts of a bigger turbo, EFR Twin scroll but the injectors will need replacing and quite frankly 320bhp was more than the roads needed.........must resist
Sorry to hear about your lack of oil incident. Your new motor looks like a bit of kit. I just love this thread!
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Thanks Ray, should be up and running next week engine was built for 9000rpm so if i get bored with 500bhp i can always fit a bigger turbo and shorter gearbox
Well the engine is now apart, the pistons and the head are undamaged
The turbo is stiff, with no play, so its been shipped to Turbo Dynamics to see if they can repair and upgrade to ceramic bearings
Rods have taken the brunt of the lack of oil, NO 2 has spun so the rods are basically junk
Clutch is in its a Helix 2.5 from Grant at GBE, hoping it will cope with the 450lbft torque and wont be too digital
Results on the Turbo are in, and its all good in the hood. Basically needed new bearings and a slight fettle and definite lack of oil issue.
Lovely Service from Turbo Dynamics, they even installed their motorsport spec when they re-furbed it. I have no idea why i said yes but the word "motorsport" sounded good. Its basically ceramic bearings which needed replacing anyway. They collected the turbo stripped inspected and had it back within the week and less than half price of a new turbo.
Engines back in and partly plumbed in
Just going to add a smallish intercooler in the side pod to assist the charge cooler, looking at the data log its highest ever temp was 48C but its never been on track so thought we'd pop one in with a little more ducting as well for cold air.
Hopefully be back in action next week.......finally
Well I finally got time to collect the car, bit of an epic trip Bournemouth to Carlisle and back in a day about 760miles in total
Good news was it gave me time to run the new 2.1 engine in. Was very tight when i pick it up and with wet roads it felt, well horrible. Looks good too. Need to add some heat shield to some pipework but will get this done.
Good news was that the car loosened up on the journey back, it now has a 60litre Pro Alloy tank fitted (although it only took 52 litres, petrol poured out the filler so knew it was full) and it nearly made it back on the one tank !
Engine now revs to 7760rpm according to the log so i need to re-set the limiter to 7500rpm
Clutch now holds and although a low pedal it grips well, gear linkage needs some adjustment though
Engine now feels lovely, had a little play with a V10 R8 on his way back from the EVO triangle, on low boost, and it was neck and neck, managed to pull up along side in a traffic jam and the driver was a little shocked....as was i..... His comment was this is silly quick and you caught me up. Did mention i had another 120bhp and he just shook his head
Curves arent great to be honest, car has too much wheel spin when turning the boost up. And fueling boost etc werent finalised so these are not adjusted
1.34 Bar boost was 386 @ 6200 rpm
1.45 Bar was 412bhp but wheels were a spinning
So will when i get a chance i will get some in car footage and drive by's
Was noticed that i put up two identical curves
so here is the 412bhp curve and it looks like it just dies at 6200 rpm but notice the boost also drops off. This is due to wheel spin
Engine is happy to pull to 7500rpm, actually hit 7750rpm on my log
Last edited by djwilma; 23-10-2014 at 09:17.
Been asked for a drive by video
15 second of your life you will never get back
http://youtu.be/aH0Pzyb-HB8
Been away for a few weeks so took the car for a spin today in the rain so good time to play about with the traction control. DTA has a a wet / dry setting. Dry is limited to 10% slip, but i can adjust this from the car and this allows the car to slide about to about 10 degrees by cutting up to 75% ignition. Wet is Zero slip etc
Wound the boost up to 1.7 bar, 3rd gear and 60mph and put my foot down. Car accelerated hit the maxboost and the ECU cut all the power to the engine
Same at 0.7 bar and she just accelerated, albeit slightly slower than in the dry
Then i noticed the oil temp, its fitted to the cold side of the water and as i have the EWP it doesnt have a thermostat and was showing 12C
So got home and turned the engine off waited 5 mins, car has a turbo timer that circulates water and turns an engine bay fan on, and the gauge shows this
I think the oil temp sensor is on the cold return so will relocate it to the sump, and if its is running cold will add a thermostat.
Put the hard top on and took the worst photo ever
End of year at work is manic so had no real time, even managed to turn 40 but still look 28 so all is good ;-)
Got to the bottom of the alternator belt the lower bracket failed
Have re- welded it and will take it to a friends garage in the new year for a proper go as the rear of the alternator isn't braced so will add a bracket in as it flexes
Also got some quali session used ZZRs from Andy at Maidstone Sports Cars was too good a deal to say no and have a spare set of wheels so will try and get a track day organised
love the thread ! awsome motor !!
Thanks, just wish i could get time to drive it as having a busy time at work so the failed alternator bracket / belt has taken for ever
However i quickly realised the bracket wasnt man enough and the belt had been hitting the cam cover, so we have fabricated a new bracket
Still work in progress, but fitted the alternator yesterday fired it up and it hit a heady 11.9 volts. Best bit was the alternator has no numbers and is an unknown origin. One i purchased for the 620 Ti isnt right so i hope second time around to have the right one
Also took the chance to make a few holes to let heat out, as the turbo sits close the bulkhead and high up it has nowhere to exhaust and when stationary i have a fan to circulate air but it just fires it out the drivers side vent, where the air filter is. So this will help
I am thinking about some additional vents on the body but i'd like to keep it vent free and std ish looking
Firstly apologies to the nice fellow that spotted my Elise at Tech1 in Poole and asked for an update.
Work and family have meant no time for me to spend on the elise.
Finally found the electrical problem the cobra siren had gone open circuit and caused all.sorts of weird problems
New alternator is fitted and cars running well
Put a new oil temp.sensor into the sump and temps sit nicely at 85c but hit 112c on a spirited run so need to keep an eye. Dash only logs highest data so may just of been a spike.
Was of course on a track at the time
Also had a little mod done to the front as only ever got hot air through the vents and as long as I am.moving it's worked well.
That will be me!
I knew you were local when I saw your road test video down boundary lane.
What was Paul doing at tech 1 on the car then?
Needed some fabrication work mainly the alternator brackets
Paul is great for the bits I can't do at home
If you fancy a pax let me know
Couldnt see diddly out of the dipped head lights so swapped for Philips 55w 150+% bulbs and had the very very scratched headlights cleaned.
Found lots of primer / paint on the lenses too
I can now almost see when driving.........
Have been getting terrible mpg 60 litres and 150 miles which I just put down to the right foot giggles
But decided to re calibrate the AFR gauge and it's made a massive difference, thought the fuel gauge was faulty at one point but it's now moving
Odometer was zero'd so fairly happy if thats the end result
Next post I am sure will be a i ran out of fuel one
Next issue is body work, I have the same problem on both sides a horizontal cracking on the lower section
Any idea why
It seems the infamous blowing of the main fuse is back
Looked at the log and it spiked at 16.9Vs
Whats more annoying its its not part of the loom that i have touched, its still the standard elise wiring
Popped a new fuse in and meter reads 11.1volts, but the red light is not on.
So, the alternator was stripped and inspected
No heat damage, no signs of over speeding and the regulator and diode packs are blown. They are connected so.....only a few things that blow these. Heat, overspeeding, bad earth and bad positive
So will run an earth from the chassis to the alternator case and see what happens.
Decided to tidy some things up, Randy mentioned it once and it's been annoying ever since.
The before photo
Added in an Ali plate below the charge cooler so most of the air passes through
I have never had an issue with the Rad always sat high and had a lot of gaps, and the chargecooler rad had gaps behind it so thought about moving thing around.
Reason for this was std fans were installed for the charge cooler, but these restricted flow to the main rad and did little when stationary. So removed these and reset the main rad lower
Next was the charge cooler pump, it used to fly free but added a bracket to the pump. Orientation is terrible.but best we could do
Next was the windscreen wiper, purchased a new motor and fitted it. Same as before, intermittant is 2/3rds of the screen and stops wherever it wants and high speed does nothing.
Assume this is the relay so will change that
Last edited by djwilma; 15-04-2015 at 23:13.
Well work is horrible at the moment, oil price is low and sales lower so its been all hands to the pump.
So i have had little time to play with the elise
I am also moving next week so i thought i would spend an evening on it
Bad news was, it blew the new alternator i fitted. So thats 3 its been through now. So its not an earth, not a live, not overspeeding or heat. So latest idea is that its load on the alternator. It blew whilst stationary in traffic at 95C. This is when the water pump duty goes to 100% and the fans kick into high speed. With all the pumps going i think it asked for more than the alternator can give.
So a 120amp alternator has been ordered and hope to have it fitted this weekend
This time just the regulator, the diode pack went later this time
More worrying is that the car wont start, nothing when the key turns not lights off nothing.
Thought this was the immobiliser so removed it and bypassed it
Didnt work
Thought the starter had blown but live to the solenoid and she runs fine
MFRU is clicking when the key turns but starter isnt moving.
Thought it was the alarm, so managed to find a 8186 on ebay new and unused.
The alarm has been playing up recently too, the fuse to the siren was removed as it was open circuit. Central Locking had failed and the LED on the Stack no longer worked.
So today i spent the fitting the 8185 module.....horrible
Finally found the module, thanks to Junks and Sportomotive, it was behind some cheap foam
Changed the Module and central locking is fine, led works but engine still wont start. The new immobiliser has a different plug so need to get a wiring diagram
LED flashes 7 then 8 times, instructions say this is a Serial Line Data Link.......
Pulled the old alarm to bits and found that it had got hot and had blown an electrical component thingy
Had enough and went to collect my son, who asked where the Lotus was and why it was in hospital again
Drinking now :bc
Well this is starting to get on my tits......
Moved house, collected Elise got to my new home and thought i would run up to the next junction as its de-restricted to clear the engine out :bc
Foot down in third, big smile, engine lost power......looked at new 120Amp alternator voltage and 13v. Dumped clutch, engine cut out all lights on dash on. Clutch up, and engine revved back up, lights went out no power and no noise.
Pulled over, popped bonnet
The fuel rail regulator had literally popped off the rail and started to fill the boot with fuel........
Its held on with a stupid clip, refitted and realised the o ring had also gone awol
Phone my friends at recovery..........called wife and explained.....got shouted at as house needed moving
Today i received, the wrong, fuel damper. But wasnt too worried as could fit the fuel in to the end of the rail.
Released jubilee clip gave it a tug and the fuel rail snapped
At this moment i'd sell the bloody thing as just dont have the time or worse the inclination......as stressy job and just moved house.
Rant over
Stick with it man it all takes time. You'll find the time somewhereOriginally Posted by djwilma
Well this is starting to get on my tits......
Moved house, collected Elise got to my new home and thought i would run up to the next junction as its de-restricted to clear the engine out :bc
Foot down in third, big smile, engine lost power......looked at new 120Amp alternator voltage and 13v. Dumped clutch, engine cut out all lights on dash on. Clutch up, and engine revved back up, lights went out no power and no noise.
Pulled over, popped bonnet
The fuel rail regulator had literally popped off the rail and started to fill the boot with fuel........
Its held on with a stupid clip, refitted and realised the o ring had also gone awol
Phone my friends at recovery..........called wife and explained.....got shouted at as house needed moving
Today i received, the wrong, fuel damper. But wasnt too worried as could fit the fuel in to the end of the rail.
Released jubilee clip gave it a tug and the fuel rail snapped
At this moment i'd sell the bloody thing as just dont have the time or worse the inclination......as stressy job and just moved house.
Rant over
had a big cup of shut the f*&K up
followed by a cup of man the f&*k up
New fuel rail on the way........monday booked off as a holiday
My god that's some car, you must be cooler than a penguins piss, I would have gotten well stressed out long before now and chucked the towel in, good on ya for sticking with!
Well work and the house move have calmed down and i have had some well deserved time off so i actually had time to do somethings to the Elise
Firstly i Jacked it up on gravel, didnt think this was a good idea, so tested to see if it would hold and it fell off the jack ! I now have a nice jack sized indentation on the drivers side sill......numpty that i am !
Anyway after cursing and explaining to myself its fun when you drive it i got on with things
The fuel rail was first, i did some research (text Drew at roverdose, thanks again) and he advised to fit the old style fuel rail as this has the regulator on the end bolted in and not the crap top mounted with a clip.
Was sent one the next day and fitting was easy ish, even if i did have to bend the rear clam to get the inlet off
The alternator wasnt working so i charged the battery and took her for a little spin, came off a roundabout floored it and smelt coolant. Looked out the back window and it was covered in condensation.......parked up got out and......
A small hose from the turbo coolant outlet was touching the turbine housing and had just given up with all the heat
Luckily the hose from the header was too long so cut it and re-positioned the new hose and all is well again. I may add a metal extension to take it away from the housing completely.
So the battery had dropped about 0.2 volts in a few mins driving so i thought i would take the car to help my brother start his new engine, only 10 miles away, and arrived with only 0.5v dropped. This tells me its not a short or a faulty piece of equipment as the battery held up well. Charged it up as it was dark when i left
So i purchased another 120amp alternator and had this fitted at the ever Helpful Tech1 Performance in Poole. They are ex Ktec and Paul has done some top class fabrication for me on my metro before and they as a norm deal with Modified cars etc so they were more than happy to help
I also had the Battery tested it was only holding 11.8v and 330ah so was advised to get a new one> Same model and the new one was 12.6v and 550ah
I also changed the negative terminal from a quick release to a hard one, just in case.
Was in two minds as to whether i should wire up the alternator but changed some settings on the ECU so the FAN and PUMP didnt both come on a the same time and thought what the hell
Car made it home but the voltage dropped from 14v down to 12.1v over a 30 min period. Let car cool started again and straight up to 14v battery was 12.4v before starting.
So i thought it may be a bad connection so wire the battery straight to the alternator, so a 170amp 120" cable was ordered and "bodged" on
This made a big difference and voltage with everything on i could press or twist, dropped to 12.8v (the DTA Volt meter is a long way down the cable so i expect voltage drop) and 13.2v direct on the battery.
This weekend i have done 250 miles in the Elise and no electrical problems. I even managed to convince the Drop Zone owner it would be a good idea to take him for a spin up the runway at the end of the day with the roof off managed the below on low boost setting :bc
So, for now, i am all happy again its even done the 250 miles on half the 60 litre tank of fuel including a couple of high speed runs :clp
Only casualty is i now have no front grill, the charge cooler is definitely too small (known from the start) and the placement of the air filter means it sucks in hot air from the engine bay not cold ish from out
Keep plugging at it mate
So sat in the car this morning and started it up
all was good but the oil light stayed on. Stopped and got the camera
https://youtu.be/f7IGYkdiUU0
Not a good sign......let it run for a minute and noticed a knocking sound....
Looks like the oil pump has failed and the top ends have gone. Will take the engine out next week and see whats what
In three minds
1. fix the t series may need rods, crank and pistons at worst
2. Sell what i can from the T series and look at the 2.3 duratech turbo and start again
3. Break the car get some cash and do something else like a Maxi Clio 182 turbo or 306 gti-6 4x4 or.........
However i intend to get drunk tonight......Beers
dont blame you it it must be really testing you now. it generally seems better after a couple of beers to give you some ideas,
I think it all points to just asking too much from the Rover lump (that and the space in which to do it!). The T series is nice, smooth and relatively lag free (had a 220 Coupe Turbo myself a few years back), but not particularly renowned for being robust or reliable at high power and it looks like you're pushing beyond the boundaries of what it can comfortably handle, now, as well as adequate cooling and space to set it up. I always fancied building a MGF with the T-series (a long time ago though!) and I guess it would share many of the same issues you've come across.
Just a thought, but would a supercharger be a better option to investigate as you wouldn't have as much excess heat or plumbing to deal with?
Definitely not the power level it runs at 11psi and 300bhp on the road
Oil Temps never been above 120c
Water temp 105c
AITs 45c
The t series is a lot stronger and this one was built for 800bhp and 9000rpm.
Issue is probably oil pump cavitation from low oil on corners or low oil level installation isn't great with a remote filter and oil cooler above sump level
If I wasn't such a man's man I would be crying now
Cranks gone so have 2 of the 4 big ends, so needs a set of rods
Oil pump inlet was indeed blocked.....but by big end so big ends look to have gone first but honestly have no idea why. Could of been low oil as light came on round a roundabout once, or mapping on big boost the engine stuttered
So i think i will sell of the parts of the engine, will post in for sale and hope to recover some of the cash i have spent
Then 50/50 on whether to admit defeat, or re start with another engine Duratec seems to be fav at the moment
Sump has sludge and debris
Engine is out and ready to be stripped, will try to sell what items i can
Back at Pauls again. What about an Honda engine with a supercharger? Don't they go in the back of elises?
They do but they are very heavy nearly same as the T series and also expensive to fit.
Plus it's been done before and they like to break drive shafts if not done properly
Audi is also an easy install but also heavier
Duratec is light and easily tuned with relatively cheap bolt on bits
So today i managed to spend sometime with the engine, its with Tech1 Performance in Poole as i just dont have the time but more importantly the inclination to take the engine out.
Good news is the head is ok
So are the pistons
And the Bores in the block
But, this was in the strainer for the oil pump
A Big End Shell
So looks like my T Series adventure is done......Its been emotional, expensive and a failure......but was fun when it went
I don't always comment, but I do always read your thread updates. Absolutely love it!
My 2 cents worth - The T-series engines never had a very good reputation did they? My friend used to complain about them in the Rover 600's. The Audi conversion might be a bit heavier, but so much better and easier. Time tested engine fitted to everything and tuned to death. I'm putting one in my car (so they must be good).
Keep up the great work and never lose heart
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As standard they're a nice unit - very smooth and little lag; but they never had a great reputation for tuning. They had tons of tales about oil leaks from the back of the head, but I have to say that I never saw any evidence of it in my 200 Coupe (also the nicest looking Rover, in my opinion ;-)
Even with the lsd they made the 200/400 and to a certain extent the 600 over powered. Modern turbo charged front wheel drive motors have a lot more sophistication. These didn't
I never owned one personally, but my mate was Rover daft. He used to say they were made of chocolate haha. But what you say as being good in standard form makes sense. He always had his cranked up to the max. Cheers
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When you consider the Coupe, and to a similar extent the 220 hatch were only just over 1000kg, even the standard output of 200bhp made them really quick; a fraction over 6 seconds to 60 and on to 150mph. I'd consider the two models to be more contemporaries of the Calibra or Corrado, rather than Escort Cosworth, 200SX or GT4; prettied up saloon/hatchbacks with a pokey engine, rather than something designed to do that from the beginning
Oh and don't get me started on Rover daft. My first 4 cars were Rovers.... all the way back with my very first car, a 1983 MG Metro Turbo
Haha, I can't say a word with my Skoda fetish
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