Which Bias Pedal Box Mk1 Escort? Gartrac or cheaper ones?

[RS2OOO]

Hi,

I'm new here and my introductory posts are in the new members section.

I've been out of the scene for a good while now and a lot has changed, mainly the prices of stuff! This is the very beginning of many questions I'm likely to be asking, so I hope you can help!

I've been told multiple times the only Mk1 Escort Bias Pedal box worth considering is the Gartrac ones and the rest have one problem or another. I can just about swallow the cost of their pedal box but Gartrac say standard throttle pedal doesn't fit, so with that its getting to almost double the price of other boxes.

Is the Gartrac box really worth it, or will cheaper boxes that fit properly on original mounts, work properly from the outset, and fit original clutch/throttle cables etc?

Any recommendations or pitfalls?

Car is for road/drag use only, but a bias box is definitely the way I want to go.

Cheers.

[onecamohv]

i was in the same position as you - couldnt swallow the cost of it at the time.

I got the 'best' cheaper one at the time, and i still regret it. it flexed and needed strengthening, the pedal angle was crap and needed cutting/welding, and i still think the leverage ratio is wrong. i basically needed to totally reengineer the whole thing.

So, you know the answer. if you want fit and forget, go gartrac. i thought i knew better, but the hassle wasnt worth it

[Graham]

i bought a cheaper pedal box, which worked for a while, i ended up modifying it and reinforcing it, when you factor in it cost me several race finishes it wasnt exactly cheap any more

[rallyrob]

One thing I have noticed about Gartrac pedal boxes is they use Genuine Girling Master Cylinders, if you price those up alone at £70-£80 each, assuming you're using all three cylinders there's a fair chunk of money there alone. The pedal box itself isn't a bad price at all, also by the time you factor in newpedal bushes and a balance bar setup with the rose joint in the middle and three new clevis forks and pin sets with new pedal rubbers and a new brake light switch.

When you break it right down like that it doesn't look so bad afterall.

An old friend made mine for me years ago, an although he made it to the letter from the Escort Rally Preparation book I was never convinced it was right by anymeans, and it flexed quite a lot aswell.

[RS2OOO]

Thanks Gents, straight to the point solid answers, much appreciated.

The car will never be for sale, so all in all sounds worth forking out for the Gartrac pedal box which I have just done.... along with some indicator flasher units!

[waverunner]

Isn't modifying a standard Mexico to blue book standard as good as a Gartrac one then?

[rallyrob]

Isn't modifying a standard Mexico to blue book standard as good as a Gartrac one then?

As nice as it would be to think so, Gartrac are the masters.

An old friend made mine for me years ago, an although he made it to the letter from the Escort Rally Preparation book I was never convinced it was right by anymeans, and it flexed quite a lot aswell.

Mine's also a Mk2 pedal box, so slightly more sturdy with the triangulated mounting pattern.

[waverunner]

What about the Rix made ones, although they look like a standard/modified item too.

[Forest_rallying]

Gartrac are like most companies now and have to put profit first, I know of someone that have bought parts from them and the quality and fitment wasn't what was expected of a firm with such a good reputation.

I had a Gartrac pedal box brand new over 35 years ago and at the time it was fit and forget until we changed to Mk 3 Escort front brakes to the rear axle, not only did the rear cylinder need changing to a different size but it needed a bias valve aswell. I know of someone that bought a Mk1 one pedal box off a supplier and the make looked like a RD one. The quality wasn't the best, the pedals were too high and there were many more things that required modifying before it was right. The chances of any pedal box working correctly straight out of the box are very slim indeed. I would say it's probably one of the worst jobs to do due to it's location, you indeed may spend many hours if not days fitting and removing it before it's to your liking.

[rallyrob]

What about the Rix made ones, although they look like a standard/modified item too.

I've just checked and a MK1 Rix pedal box through Motorsport Tools is infact dearer than a Gartrac pedal box.

[waverunner]

I've just checked and a MK1 Rix pedal box through Motorsport Tools is infact dearer than a Gartrac pedal box.

Do you think it's any good?

[rallyrob]

Do you think it's any good?

Well they are another UK company that make good quality parts so I can't see there would be anything wrong with it.

[waverunner]

Well they are another UK company that make good quality parts so I can't see there would be anything wrong with it.

Good point, I'm in desperate need to upgrade my brakes so gathering all information I can

[Forest_rallying]

Good point, I'm in desperate need to upgrade my brakes so gathering all information I can

The Rix parts that MS Tools sell are of outstanding quality and MS Tools provide a very good service. I have just ordered some parts off them so I can finish the Car off over the long Weekend.

Don't expect a bias pedal box to give you any better brakes, the only good they do is adjusting the proportion of braking from front to rear, even then sometimes a proportioning valve has to be installed in the rear line to reduce the braking efficency if big discs and calipers are fitted to the back axle.

It's been discussed before in various threads, a 1970's Escort's never going to have the brakes as a modern day car without spending an absolute fortune.

[mk2-mad-ad]

what about the ones from retro ford corby cheaper than gartrac and they seem to knock out some good quality stuff , or give squires twins a ring at rally and competition equipment dont know whos they would sell but they dont sell stuff for the sake of it its always good quality tried and tested

[Graham]

Don't expect a bias pedal box to give you any better brakes, the only good they do is adjusting the proportion of braking from front to rear,

good points, although i should add i always convert my cars to bias boxes, as well as the adjust-ability, i prefer the consistent and firmer feel of a non servo'd set up and also save a chunk of weight at the same time

[RS2OOO]

Another plus side of the bias box is the independent front and rear circuits so you still get some level of brakes if a circuit fails, whereas my Mk1 with original brake lines only has a single circuit for all brakes.

Its an unconformable feeling when master cylinder fails and pedal goes to floor.

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[rallyrob]

Its an unconformable feeling when master cylinder fails and pedal goes to floor.

Especially if you don't happen to have a clean pair of underpants to hand...

[RS2OOO]

The downside is that I've spent best part of a grand on the conversion (including rear disc conversion and flaring/bending tool etc).

It's gonna take a while to get used to the cost of things now. Younger enthusiasts might be shocked at what some parts on my Escort cost originally.... Like £600 for the Tranx straight cut type 9!

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[rallyrob]

Younger enthusiasts might be shocked at what some parts on my Escort cost originally.... Like £600 for the Tranx straight cut type 9!

Think that's about what I paid for mine, but that Was best part of 30yrs ago.

[RS2OOO]

Think that's about what I paid for mine, but that Was best part of 30yrs ago.

1997 for me!
A used Quaife English LSD in the same year, from memory it was £80 plus a 3.77 standard diff, which I recall were hard to come by at the time.



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[Forest_rallying]

Another plus side of the bias box is the independent front and rear circuits so you still get some level of brakes if a circuit fails, whereas my Mk1 with original brake lines only has a single circuit for all brakes.

Its an unconformable feeling when master cylinder fails and pedal goes to floor.

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Believe it or not even when a cylinder or circuit fails with a bias pedal box the pedal will almost hit the floor with very little brake effort working on the opposite circuit and there's a good chance you'll possibly bend the balance bar. That's the nature of how they work.

[RS2OOO]

Good point, never thought of that happening.

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[Forest_rallying]

Good point, never thought of that happening.

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Good luck with yours and if you need any advice don't be frightened to ask.

[waverunner]

Believe it or not even when a cylinder or circuit fails with a bias pedal box the pedal will almost hit the floor with very little brake effort working on the opposite circuit and there's a good chance you'll possibly bend the balance bar. That's the nature of how they work.

Wouldn’t a twin system with a fixed bar and a proportioning valve on the rear be a good idea?

[Graham]

Wouldn’t a twin system with a fixed bar and a proportioning valve on the rear be a good idea?

no because the bar has to pivot for the system to work

[waverunner]

no because the bar has to pivot for the system to work

No, what I’m getting at is, if you have a duel braking system without the bias bar, both brake cylinders working in tandem, equal force because of a fixed bar but then overcome the excess rear braking via a proportioning valve on the rear?

[Graham]

No, what I’m getting at is, if you have a duel braking system without the bias bar, both brake cylinders working in tandem, equal force because of a fixed bar but then overcome the excess rear braking via a proportioning valve on the rear?

i understand what your saying, but it cant physically work, the cylinders are different sizes and displace different amounts of fluid to brakes that have different amounts of travel, if you had a fixed bar once you have taken the travel up on one circuit the pedal would go solid but not apply any pressure to the other

[waverunner]

i understand what your saying, but it cant physically work, the cylinders are different sizes and displace different amounts of fluid to brakes that have different amounts of travel, if you had a fixed bar once you have taken the travel up on one circuit the pedal would go solid but not apply any pressure to the other

Right, I can see now, it's a pity you can't get a duel, single inline cylinder, like fitted to later Fords. Or maybe you can?

[katana]

Right, I can see now, it's a pity you can't get a duel, single inline cylinder, like fitted to later Fords. Or maybe you can?

You can but need to be a clever hydraulics engineer to size the integrated pistons to suit each brake circuit - easy to do with 2No. combined front & rear diagonal splits as both are balanced side to side and front to rear but extremely tricky with front - rear split!

[chris_reade]

I wish I had bought a Gartrac one, bought cheaper and bitterly regretted it. The amount of times we had it in / out / modded before it fitted. Also there wasn't even a mounting hole on the clutch pedal for the return spring!

[RS2OOO]

If nothing else you guys are definitely easing the pain of what the gartrac pedal box and throttle pedal cost!

I do recall Mk1 pedal boxes being a right pain years ago and many were just badly converted MK2 ones.

Should be delivered in a week or so and I'll post up a few pics. For now all parts are only to be test fitted prior to the car going in for restoration so I don't have to cut and drill too much after its painted.

Companies I've spoke to about booking in the restoration work have been really slow to follow up so if anyone knows people in the South east who do good fabrication / restoration work I'm still keeping options open.

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[Mkdu]

used a rix one for MK2, now moving to hydraulic clutch, and again a Rix pedalbox.
Bought a lot of parts that came for this supplier, always satisfied.

[RS2OOO]

Gartrac Cable Clutch Pedal box arrived today, and some other bits to complete the rear disc conversion, front caliper overhaul kit and some new indicators.

Visually the pedal box oozes quality. Paying for it hurt, but I'm starting to see the value for money.

For now parts are only being dry fitted prior to the shell being stripped and sent away for fabrication / restoration and paint for which I'm on a waiting list with an Estimated build commencement of March 2021.

Seen this question a lot on various forums, so for anyone who wants to know, the rear cylinder came fitted to the right, front cylinder on the left if looking down from drivers seat.

[123-lorrydriver]

Pedal box looks like a nice bit of kit. Not sure I want to know the price!!??

I considered going bias box and rear discs but after a few chats decided to use the mark 2 dual circuit,non-servo on my zetec'd mark 1, with standard pedal box, refurbed m16's and 9' rear drums.... worked really well with good firm pedal for the 6k miles done so far 👍

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[RS2OOO]

Pedal box was £396 inc. Vat.

Sounds a lot, well it is a lot, but includes proper Girling master cylinders, pedal rubbers, brake light switch etc etc so once you add all this up it hurts a bit less.

It was a long time ago but everyone I knew had issues with bias pedal boxes in mk1's, as pretty much confirmed by others in this thread, so hopefully this will be one component I can fit and forget with the advantage the pedals are the same as original ones so the feel should still be the same.

Agree re: 9" drums. Mine are very good as it happens, but I always had handbrake adjustment issues with one side always stronger than the other, so dumping them has been on the cards since I bought the cossie rear calipers 15 years ago lol!