The attached file is Run in procedure for 1.0lt. Turbo Ford Fiesta R2T Rally car.
The attached file is Run in procedure for 1.0lt. Turbo Ford Fiesta R2T Rally car.
So, why did I find this procedure interesting ?
Those 4000rpm and 4000 rpm + phases ( each phase is 12,5 km as written ) up to 7000rpm are continuous driving at that RPM for 12,5 kms. This is how it has to be done but most probably can not be applied to our old school engines.
Should we drive our Pinto or Xflow at 7000 rpm continues for 12,5 kms ? Probably not !!
My technique was driving at these kind of RPM steps but not continuously, meaning that I would for example reach to 6000 rpm but then back off ( decompression ) and re-load the engine and repeat this more or less continuously for 12,5-15 kms then go to next level rpm which is usually +500 then repeat the procedure until the highest target rpm completed.
What do you think?
Decompression* I meant to say deceleration.
It doesn't mean that you should drive 12.5 km at those rpm's continously.
You should treat those rpm's in the list as a maximum during those 12.5 km's.
Hi Leon,Originally Posted by Miniliteman
Well I have thought like that but it is not the case. We have asked this to an official MSport dealer and the answer is; you should drive 12.5 km at those rpm’s continuously. ( this is a verified reply )
As a matter of fact, this was the reason I have posted this info here. Actually, I found it very interesting. This engine is in my son’s rally car which we have rebuild his engine and informed to follow the procedure strictly.
My regular procedure is different as you described.
But then we were chatting with a friend of mine who had various Mountune prepped Sierra and Escort Cosworth YB engines which had a similar procedure on the engine dyno Run-in. Naturally, it was not kms but time at various rpm levels under the load.
Someone is interpreting those numbers wrongly as Leon says! Where would anyone be able to drive safely and put engine under load ie. a high gear, at 7k rpm for 7.5 miles without deviation? Fairly sure they are stepped max. limits against distance!
What would concern me more is, assuming this is a fresh engine build with new components? - idling a new camshaft and followers is a receipe for short life i've always been told?
I am almost %99.99 sure I haven’t interpreted the numbers wrong. This info is verified by 2 Msport dealer sources. Today, we have asked to Msport directly and soon we will receive their reply.
The 2 sources that I am in contact are Msport rally car preparers and built many Fiesta R2 and R2Ts over the past years and they have strictly followed the written Msport Run-In manual. And yes they drove freshly built engines at those fixed rpms for 12.5 kms and sometimes even more.
I have been told that for the last 6500-7000 rpm levels they usually don’t use top gear on the motorway to keep the top speed at reasonable levels.
I am almost %99.99 sure I haven’t interpreted the numbers wrong. This info is verified by 2 Msport dealer sources. Today, we have asked to Msport directly and soon we will receive their reply.
The 2 sources that I am in contact are Msport rally car preparers and built many Fiesta R2 and R2Ts over the past years and they have strictly followed the written Msport Run-In manual. And yes they drove freshly built engines at those fixed rpms for 12.5 kms and sometimes even more.
I have been told that for the last 6500-7000 rpm levels they usually don’t use top gear on the motorway to keep the top speed at reasonable levels.
You can be 100% sure (not even 99%) the Msport dealer is a sales man, don't know anything about engine and got it wrong, Leon got it right.
It would be very silly to run this engine engine for 12,5 Km at 7000 RPM. It would mean there is almost no load at all on the pistons and rings will not be pushed against the bores. The rings must be pushed against the bores, preferable quite hard but only for a short time. They need to bed in but can not handle the heat yet because they are not fully bed in, only part of the ring will make contact with the bore and for this reason can not yet bring all the heat from the piston to the bore, the piston would overheat if it can not get rid of the heat.
To be honest, it does not take to long before the rings are bed in as long as you can pull hard enough for short times and can keep the water temp round 70-80°. Usual after 1h I start tuning the engines and start pushing harder and harder. Normally after 1h I already make full power runs, leave them cool down and pull again when I have to. I've run in hundreds of engine, engines that has been raced the day after tuning for a full season, engines that came back in after the season and where still perfect so nothing can have been wrong the way I do it.
One thing I fully agree, change the oil as often as possible in this period, lots af metal comes into the oil, find his way to the soft bearings, stay there and eat the crank slowly. I used to have a special magnet to run in, it came between the oil filter and you could easy see it was strapping a lot of metal. After cleaning and running in, almost zero metal could be found.
Last edited by Dyno; 03-09-2020 at 20:09.
BTW, possible they do run in this cars like this but again, it's silly and high risk you get glazed rings and bores
I know what you mean exactly. By the way, I am not supporting the Msport method but this is what they say to their customers regarding the Run-in section in the engine build manual.
As you know, this is my son’s fiesta 1.0 turbo with forged pistons etc. A typical homologated FIA legal modern rally car. We have rebuilt the engine and the manual says like that. I was surprised and we have started questioning this recipe via correct channels. The people we have asked actually were not the sales person. They were also the actual engine builders, they build and run these cars in the way like its written in the book. Again, I must say I am surprised because since the last 12-13 years I have run in my engines the other way. I have used rpm steps but always loaded the rings via short bursts and never stayed on the fixed rpm, then off the acceleration and re-load again etc. Approx 12-15 kms at one selected rpm level but never drove at fixed rpm, almost continuously load and unload fashion. Then to next rpm level. I even used to change the run-in oil and filter before I start going up to last 1000 rpm or so.
Thats also the way I would do it if I don't have a dyno.
Please note, it's nog because they are working for Msport they are clever people. Most of them just do their job. To be honest, I've met a lot of people working for race team's etc... I believe if you want a correct answer, better to ask here at forum instead of the people I've met. There are a lot better engine builders here than the one I've seen out there.
By the way, these homologated forged pistons ( Msport items ) does not come with rings. You have to use OE rings. Bearings also standart items. So basically when you build this 1.0 turbo Gr.A engines you change the pistons, rods, valve springs, spark plugs and camshafts.
And a single piston is 550 euro without the pin and rings. Real rip off. 1 spark plug is 125 euro !!!!
Fully agree.
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