Correct geometry for Panhard & AntiTramp Bars

[avtospotter]

Any thoughts on the following anyone? (Pictures apreciated!)

1) i’ve been told to put the panhard bar as parallel to the axle when the car is on the ground (ride height when not moving) and welding it in place like that, though a video i’ve come across suggested its more accurate doing it at HALF TRAVELL which I recon is not same as when the car grounded, no?

2) from the same uploader theres another video about link arms (anti tramp bars) where they compared link arms to truck arms. On our cars (at least my mk1 escort) these atb’s are more like truck arms, not so much at angle (almost not at angle at all) though they sit on the inner side near the center onthe inside of the leaf springs where the video shows a drawing where they put them on the outter side of the leafs.

Anyone done theirs this way? Thoughts?
Cheers

Check the video too its put together very nicely, the oangard one is on their channel too


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqb...m_LJEDaLTd2HSA

[katana]

You are over thinking this! A panhard fitted horizontal, at a slight angle at rest or level at some part in its travel makes 2/10ths of FA difference that you'll notice whilst driving! If any of this worries you then fit a watts linkage instead as this arrangement obviates any miniscule sideways axle movement present with a panhard system. These aren't high tech suspensions and will never get similar results to an IRS so just accept a reasonable improvement!

[avtospotter]

You are over thinking this! A panhard fitted horizontal, at a slight angle at rest or level at some part in its travel makes 2/10ths of FA difference that you'll notice whilst driving! If any of this worries you then fit a watts linkage instead as this arrangement obviates any miniscule sideways axle movement present with a panhard system. These aren't high tech suspensions and will never get similar results to an IRS so just accept a reasonable improvement!

Hey Katana, thanks for your input

I know about the watts linkage, 4 links etc.... my path of choice is is panhard & atb's and I'm just wondering about opinions to the info I came across in that video. I dont really think im overdoing it by asking, since time is all we have in the current situation.
You are right, its an old suspension design and will never be advanced, but hey, why not try and make the best of it? i know quiet a bit about angles, radius etc and what movement goes on underneath and Im well sure that sometimes a few degress make for a difference and I know I will sleep better once the car is finnished if I try my best now

[therealpinto]

Those videos are nice but we have to remember they are made with the perspective of a car with air suspension, not really "performance suspension". Normally, the ride height at the rear should be at 50% travel, meaning you have the same amount of compression and droop. In a car with springs the ride height is also "set", we don't change that from time to time.

Therefor I say the correct way to setup a panhard rod for "our cars" is at ride height - that is the setting where the car will be driven. That also means that it is right around ride height you want the axle to move as little as possible from side to side (that's why we want the panhard horizontal). You also want the total height to match the front roll center, in a normal front engined car you generally want the rear roll center a little bit higher than the front, but not too much. Normally in an Escort putting the panhard bar so the height is the same as the axle center works fine. But it can be interesting to have alternative mounting points to set it lower (but still horizontal) to see what a lower roll centre feels like.


The truck arm video (or 2-link) is not really relevant for the Escort, that's a completely different system. There are no leaf springs in the video sketches, the rectangles are frame rails and the 2-link or the truck arms are used with air springs. 2-link is the same as a ladder bar and that is useless on a car that needs to turn, since, just like video says, it limits articulation. Truck arms are different since the angle in towards the center and also are designed to flex.

Gustaf

[Graham]

all you need do is get the panhard close to parallel with the vehicle at normal ride height

[avtospotter]

Those videos are nice but we have to remember they are made with the perspective of a car with air suspension, not really "performance suspension". Normally, the ride height at the rear should be at 50% travel, meaning you have the same amount of compression and droop. In a car with springs the ride height is also "set", we don't change that from time to time.

Therefor I say the correct way to setup a panhard rod for "our cars" is at ride height - that is the setting where the car will be driven. That also means that it is right around ride height you want the axle to move as little as possible from side to side (that's why we want the panhard horizontal). You also want the total height to match the front roll center, in a normal front engined car you generally want the rear roll center a little bit higher than the front, but not too much. Normally in an Escort putting the panhard bar so the height is the same as the axle center works fine. But it can be interesting to have alternative mounting points to set it lower (but still horizontal) to see what a lower roll centre feels like.


The truck arm video (or 2-link) is not really relevant for the Escort, that's a completely different system. There are no leaf springs in the video sketches, the rectangles are frame rails and the 2-link or the truck arms are used with air springs. 2-link is the same as a ladder bar and that is useless on a car that needs to turn, since, just like video says, it limits articulation. Truck arms are different since the angle in towards the center and also are designed to flex.

Gustaf

I see, this is what I didnt realise, that it only applies to air suspension cars. Well then thank you, it was the exact answert needed. all the best Gustaf

all you need do is get the panhard close to parallel with the vehicle at normal ride height

Cheers Graham, thats what I'll do then

[mrmk2]

And a long panhard rod is better than a short one, you get less sideways movement with it.