No Brakes new Post any ideas?

[Yorkiekev]

Originally posted a post but some of the original info was incorrect so went for a new one

(Mk1 1973 1300L Disc front drum rear)
Bought the car with this defect
Well after spending quite sometime on this fault and purchasing a new master cylinder I have still not managed to get my brakes working


Original diagnosis
Brake pedal to the floor, no resistance whatsoever

tried to bleed the brakes absolutely nothing coming through the system (Tandem servo and master cylinder)
went for a new master cylinder, after discussion and recommendations discussing this on here and seemed the logical option



Arrived and fitted today, topped up and started to bleed the system
Managed to bleed the rears pulled through to new good fluid
tried to bleed the primary, Disc circuit, and managed to bleed the Off side drivers side
went to bleed the near side passenger side, nothing at all, pedal still to the floor (pumping for ages)
removed the fixed pipe from the calliper on the end of the flexi nearside, and nothing even dripping through , even pressing the brake pedal with this off nothing coming out
Well gutted as hoped the new master cylinder would have been the answer
So thinking a collapsed flexi ?, they are not in the best shape, all the fixed brake lines are or seem spot on the flexi's not so, especially on the nearside which has also lost its anchor point on the upright and seeping
could this be the issue or has anyone has a similar problem, the callipers seem good and the pads are quite new not getting anything out of the pipe when removed is a puzzle other than maybe the flexi?
Any ideas, thinking trying to find a brake specialist to do it, if I can find one, but any advice or ideas would be greatly appreciated

[Graham]

its quite common for old flex hoses to break up internally and block or act as one way valves, the master almost certainly fixed the initial problem, you just cant get all the air out now due to the flexi

[modifyitmike]

its quite common for old flex hoses to break up internally and block or act as one way valves, the master almost certainly fixed the initial problem, you just cant get all the air out now due to the flexi

as Graham has said, i have come across this problem yrs before , best to change all flexi pipes for new, the start again to bleed system , or get hold of easy bleed and use that. hope this helps.

[katana]

Don't beat yourself up about the master cylinder replacement - a dealer would have probably done the same thing! And a new master on a 40+ year old car is no bad thing, nor are replacement flexi hoses all round!

[Yorkiekev]

Thanks all, will get a set of flexi's bought, seen them on ebay I think, see how they go, thanks again ��

[stevieturbo]

I'd sooner have more information on how you're trying to bleed before changing parts.

To have no pedal whatsoever seems odd, and suggests poor method.

Use either a pressure bleeder, vacuum....or a plain simple old large syringe and piece of clear tubing at each outlet, this allows you to either push or pull fluid through the system.. If you're trying to pump pedal etc, you're wasting your time.

So what actual problem are you having with bleeding ? and what is the layout of the system ?

Split ? no split ? F/R ? diagonal ? other ? If you cap off a line from the master, can you get the pedal hard, to verify master integrity ?

And is the pedal/actuating rod even moving far enough back at rest to allow fluid to move to be bled in the system ? ( again, the syringe or back bleed from each corner is good for this )

[Yorkiekev]

For bleeding am using a Europat Vizibleed Brake and Clutch Bleeding Kit from Halford, not had a problem with these before, it is working and pushing through to clear fluid, except that leg. It is a dual line system the front feeds a splitter joint which then feeds both sides. I can't comment on the correct movement of the actuating rod other than it is operating, difficult to check when working alone, is there a measurement from the end of the servo? And can it be altered? Wasn't sure about operating it with the master cylinder off.
Checked all the linkage it is all connected, the brake pedal travel is full in both directions, but yes no guarantee the rod is actuating correctly
The fluid does go down in the header tank and have kept topped up as bleeding.
The car had the defect when bought, so do not have an operating starting point to go from.
There are no leaks on the system other than, as mentioned seepage on the flexi nearside, regardless of the fault they need changing anyway so have ordered those.
I have not had this problem of constant to the floor operation, if the actuating rod can be altered would appreciate info on that.

[katana]

No it can't - one size fits all - no adjustment.

[Yorkiekev]

OK thankyou, small update, removed the flexi hose from the nearside, it is totally perished on the inside and blocked, the fixed pipes before and after are clear so will wait for my new flexi's to arrive before fault finding further

[stevieturbo]

I can't comment on the correct movement of the actuating rod other than it is operating, difficult to check when working alone, is there a measurement from the end of the servo? And can it be altered?

It's easy. If you back bleed from each corner and can push fluid into the reservoir, the master/rod setup is fine. If you cannot...it may not be fine.

Some are adjustable, some are not.

[katana]

Steve - stop trying to confuse the boy! He's managed to bleed 3 corners with the traditional method and a defective hose has stymied the other.
And its a Mk1 Escort - none of any of the Escort servo's were adjustable.

[Yorkiekev]

Final update, all resolved, new master cyli der, set of flexi's and a traditional method good bleed all working ��

[Graham]

[wildo105e]

it's not a bad thing changing the flexi's. You now know they are in good nick now.

[modifyitmike]

[Yorkiekev]

So the brake pedal is now really hard goes down a couple of inches then rock hard, it's as if no servo assist, �� car is stopping and not pulling, does that sound right?

[rallyrob]

So the brake pedal is now really hard goes down a couple of inches then rock hard, it's as if no servo assist, �� car is stopping and not pulling, does that sound right?

Sounds right to me. Stopping, and not pulling. I assume when you say not pulling, you mean it is pulling up in a straight line rather than left or right? And also are you sure you haven't got a vacuum leak going into the servo?

[Yorkiekev]

Yep, just in a straight line, have to remember it's a 50 Yr old car ��, rear drums have Been adjusted, handbrake is spot on, new pads and shoes, it was just the travel really but as you say it is stopping��

[rallyrob]

Yep, just in a straight line, have to remember it's a 50 Yr old car ��, rear drums have Been adjusted, handbrake is spot on, new pads and shoes, it was just the travel really but as you say it is stopping��

When you say new pads and shoes, how new? They could just still be bedding in!

[Yorkiekev]

Week ish, that wouldn't affect the pedal though would it? will see how it goes, at least the single pot calipers and the rear brake cylinders all seem OK.

[Graham]

brake travel will shorten a bit as new pads bed into old discs, also check front wheel bearings for excessive play, that will increase pedal travel

[RS2OOO]

Week ish, that wouldn't affect the pedal though would it? will see how it goes, at least the single pot calipers and the rear brake cylinders all seem OK.

Definitely does affect the pedal, and it should gradually feel more tactile over the next couple of hundred miles.

If its rock hard in the sense you need all your strength to press it, then that could be servo/vacuum related as rallyrob suggests.

[Yorkiekev]

No problem, will just monitor it once I sort a few other bits out, ��