E10 Fuel & It's Problems

[SimonD]

Thought I'd start a conversation regarding the new E10 fuel that's coming to the UK soon, who else has looked at all the horror info on the internet about it?


From what I can work out, ethanol by its self isn't corrosive but if the fuel is left for long enough (over the winter months) water will form in the tank and then the fuel will become corrosive which will attack the rally style alloy tanks most of us use and other bits.


I did find on an Australian website if the alloy is hard anodized it will be better protected against E10, E15 and E85. Not sure if a tank could be anodized inside or not, or do we need to find a plastic fuel tank that would fit an Escort?


I'm not too concerned about the Duratec engine its self being a modern engine, Jenvey throttle body, injectors or fuel lines should be ok. My swirl pot is anodized inside and out but what about the fuel pump?


What's everyone else's thoughts

[dt36]

It's already on Tesco forecourts.
I'm going for the Super, which is still E5.

[Graham]

yes ive seen stuff on the internet, to be honest i dont know what all the fuss is about! super unleaded has been E5 for years, and isnt changing.

anyone half serious about performance should already be using super anyways

[laur]

Mainland europe has had the E10 fuel for a few years already, also here in Estonia.

For me personally, running only EFI engines, the only noticeable difference is that the fuel fouls much faster...id say max 2 months.
If you let it sit over winter, the car is very hard to start in the spring. Fuel tank and lines will be fine on the inside, not enough water nor oxigen to do any harm.

Id be more concerned about the injectors and have them cleaned every few years when running higher than 20% ethanol, especially when running forced induction.

Provisionally, as metal fuel lines tend to rot over time anyway, in long term i would change over to PolyUrethane or even better PTFE hose...
easy to bend, wont rot, ethanol proof and quick connectors available(so far ive trusted to use them only on return line, but they are rated for 10 bar I belive).

[katana]

yes ive seen stuff on the internet, to be honest i dont know what all the fuss is about! super unleaded has been E5 for years, and isnt changing.

anyone half serious about performance should already be using super anyways

Easy to say when all the fuel system is new and not rotted. Older classics, bikes and garden / agricultural stuff with rubber, brass and older plastics just don't cope with alcohol in fuel. Older rubber fuel lines have rotted out in a couple of years and caused fires, destroying cars. One fuel that doesn't play well with anything aluminium is Methanol - it fur's up fuel systems and turns anything alloy white - when racing we used to flush the whole fuel system through with petrol after use and blast WD40 down the inlets as its attraction for water vapour would rust everything before the next use!
People have said their vehicle 'runs better on Super' - its psychological as unless you tune the ignition advance to see the benefit of better octane, there is no 'measurable improvement' but if it makes people feel better spending money needlessly - crack on.
What p**ses me off is its a big tax scam - can't use E10, have to buy expensive Super E5 pay more fuel tax and VAT - but the govt. are saving the planet really - aren't they?

[SimonD]

What p**ses me off is its a big tax scam - can't use E10, have to buy expensive Super E5 pay more fuel tax and VAT - but the govt. are saving the planet really - aren't they?

Talking about tax scams. I have seen an article from the AA that have guestimated 1.6% increase in fuel consumption because ethanol has less energy compared to E5.
Which roughly equates to £13million a month extra tax duty profit for the Gov, more second homes and swimming pools all around for our leaders then


My car will be mapped to take advantage of Super once it's at that stage but what got me thinking about this, is how long will it be until Super is changed to higher ethanol content. Considering going "Green" is all the government can think about at the moment!

[SimonD]

Talking about tax scams. I have seen an article from the AA that have guestimated 1.6% increase in fuel consumption because ethanol has less energy compared to E5.

Sorry I should have said E10 instead of put ethanol

[POO SLINGER]

the ethenol is water soluble and can be removed fairly easy,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9mLbuUSt-0

[Graham]

the ethenol is water soluble and can be removed fairly easy,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9mLbuUSt-0

Really cool and at a level i can understand

[dt36]

Obviously a different fuel, but when the Government introduced low Sulphur diesel to the UK, a lot of people just added about 300ml of 2 stroke oil to their tanks on filling up.
Not looking to open a debate up on this, but it would quieten an engine, lubricate pumps and injectors better and reduce smoke and emissions. You just had to be careful not to use red oil, or you had to keep your fuel receipts.
There's always an additive or a trick out there somewhere, as with Poo Slinger's post.

[djmca]

Correct me if i'm wrong

I read somewhere that Super unleaded will only be available for the next 5 years or so

[katana]

Well, ESSO are still stating that their 'Super', which is marked as E5 (due to legislation !) is and remains Ethanol free (for most of the country). So I guess i'll be doing ESSO super fill up's in my classic car and alternate between E10 and Esso E5 in the Dullville - not that i'm putting much fuel through it these days anyway! I guess if ESSO see's a pick up in sales of their ethanol free E5 they may be tempted to continue producing it - there is no requirement apparently to have any 'renewable' fraction in any E5 fuel so long may it continue!

[Miniliteman]

https://www.retro-uk.com/page040.htm

[SimonD]

https://www.retro-uk.com/page040.htm

That stuff doesn't work very well, check this test video out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvS_D4_lF5U&t=484s

[Miniliteman]

Thanks for that.

[stevieturbo]

All a bit of faff about nothing really.

The change from leaded to unleaded was far worse, but the world kept on ticking.

[Forest_rallying]

I remember the 80's when Shell introduced their new brand of petrol called Formula Shell, it knackered many engines along the line until it was withdrawn from the forecourts. Rumour had it that it was an early introduction to unleaded fuel.

I can only see the price and demand of Super Plus fuel going sky high until they start and reduce production of it.

They are slowly but surely turning the thumb screws on the internal combustion engine, it's the thin end of the wedge.

[stevieturbo]

At this time, emergency services cannot run on battery, haulage, industry and many other services. Planes, boats too.

Normal fuels will be around for a long time yet and they cannot try and price such things out of the market otherwise inflation in general would skyrocket along with a reduction in services as well as a massive reduction in tax for the government.

Battery cars are improving, although still nobody has seemed to address the issue of the nuclear/plastic waste that are batteries in the future. It's all very well making millions of them, but they still do not have a proper plan for disposal of them

Hell, even seen a funny photo the other day relating to wind turbines. The blades in these get heavily damaged in use and have a far shorter lifespan than they originally thought. So how do they dispose of them ? landfill. Not really so friendly either.

[waverunner]

I've just purchased some leaded, yes, I said leaded fuel for my two stroke motorbikes. They run so much better and cleaner, 105 octane too . (Smells awesome when the two spiralling smoke trails exit the pipes)

Way too expensive to run the Escort on the stuff, its been set up and tuned with super, so just carry on with that.

[briang]

I've just purchased some leaded, yes, I said leaded fuel for my two stroke motorbikes. They run so much better and cleaner, 105 octane too . (Smells awesome when the two spiralling smoke trails exit the pipes)

Way too expensive to run the Escort on the stuff, its been set up and tuned with super, so just carry on with that.

low lead avgas from your local aerodrome??

[katana]

I've just purchased some leaded, yes, I said leaded fuel for my two stroke motorbikes. They run so much better and cleaner, 105 octane too

Why use leaded fuel? Unless the CR of those engines are north of 13+ : 1 there is no need for octane numbers that high? Leaded or unleaded fuel doesn't 'smell' any different - it's the oil it's mixed with that produces the aroma - Castrol R30 - a great smelling 2 smoke oil LOL! FYI all 2 stroke racing bikes & karts used / use unleaded fuels and getting 55+ HP out of a 125cc engine ain't too shabby when racing.

[waverunner]

Why use leaded fuel? Unless the CR of those engines are north of 13+ : 1 there is no need for octane numbers that high? Leaded or unleaded fuel doesn't 'smell' any different - it's the oil it's mixed with that produces the aroma - Castrol R30 - a great smelling 2 smoke oil LOL! FYI all 2 stroke racing bikes & karts used / use unleaded fuels and getting 55+ HP out of a 125cc engine ain't too shabby when racing.

Sorry, what I didn't add was its for my 'Classic' two stroke bikes. When they were designed and produced, leaded fuel was the norm. The smell is definatly different but yes, with a drop of Castrol R, its sweet.

Plus, when I check the plugs the colour is a rich brown and clean as a whistle

[dt36]

Sorry, what I didn't add was its for my 'Classic' two stroke bikes. When they were designed and produced, leaded fuel was the norm. The smell is definatly different but yes, with a drop of Castrol R, its sweet.

Plus, when I check the plugs the colour is a rich brown and clean as a whistle

Castrol R. Loved that in my Motocross bike as a youth and the smell at a meeting brings back great memories. :-)