Escort pedal box hydraulic clutch to MX5 slave and 5 speed gearbox

[wildo105e]

Hi all,

I had this combination working and had to change the engine now my clutch doesn't work (master cyclinder wasn't even disconnected from the slave). I have bled it a few times to no avail since.

My quick question is what size of Master cyclinder has anyone used. I think currently i have a 0.625 as per the norm for an escort. The clutch lever moves on the slave but i cannot engage gear etc. I have tried packing it with a few washers to increase travel to no effect.

I dont want to start changing master cylinders to find out its the actual clutch cover or something else. Flywheel and clutch etc is all mx5.

Cheers guys.

[alladdin]

same clutch setup ? what exactly has changed ?

[Forest_rallying]

Hi all,

I had this combination working and had to change the engine now my clutch doesn't work (master cyclinder wasn't even disconnected from the slave). I have bled it a few times to no avail since.

My quick question is what size of Master cyclinder has anyone used. I think currently i have a 0.625 as per the norm for an escort. The clutch lever moves on the slave but i cannot engage gear etc. I have tried packing it with a few washers to increase travel to no effect.

I dont want to start changing master cylinders to find out its the actual clutch cover or something else. Flywheel and clutch etc is all mx5.

Cheers guys.

How much free travel's on the slave cylinder arm before the thrust bearing makes contact with the clutch cover? Is the slave cylinder off the MX5?

I have always used a.7.00 master cylinder for the clutch.

I forgot to add, you haven't got a return spring attached to the slave cylinder arm by any chance have you?

[wildo105e]

Nothing, apart from the engine. Same flywheel clutch cover plate slave master same gearbox etc. I even just took the slave off the box and left it connected to the master. I have had the engine and box out again to check i had the plate in the right orientation and it seems it can only go in 1 way.

When i had the car running with the previous smoky engine the car would move on the clutch etc. Now i can no longer engage gear when running. But on axle stands it will go in gear and drive the wheels etc (without using the clutch old skool shifting) so the drive train works just not releasing the the plate for normal correct use.

Pushing he pedal shifts the clutch fork just wondering if it pushing enough ? will a bigger cylinder give move movement ? or has something happened to the cover (brand new),

wish i had my pinto back

[Forest_rallying]

You have only answered one of my three questions Wildo! Other than giving it a good bleeding or trying a larger MC I can't offer anymore advice,sorry.

[Graham]

Nothing, apart from the engine. Same flywheel clutch cover plate slave master same gearbox etc. I even just took the slave off the box and left it connected to the master. I have had the engine and box out again to check i had the plate in the right orientation and it seems it can only go in 1 way.

When i had the car running with the previous smoky engine the car would move on the clutch etc. Now i can no longer engage gear when running. But on axle stands it will go in gear and drive the wheels etc (without using the clutch old skool shifting) so the drive train works just not releasing the the plate for normal correct use.

Pushing he pedal shifts the clutch fork just wondering if it pushing enough ? will a bigger cylinder give move movement ? or has something happened to the cover (brand new),

wish i had my pinto back

is the main shaft stuck or seized in the crank spigot bearing? that will behave exactly same as a dragging clutch

[wildo105e]

is the main shaft stuck or seized in the crank spigot bearing? that will behave exactly same as a dragging clutch

That's very interesting, although I have had the engine off whilst i removed the clutch etc to check and it went back etc Maybe i have the spigot bearing mis-aligned the bearing in the crank as this is also new (forgot that bit). So effectively the input shaft is still stuck to the crank etc even when depressing the pedal.

engine and box out again bit there is a glimmer of hope At least this time the whole setup isn't completely in before checking it.

now i have got back some mojo.

Thanks everyone so far

[wildo105e]

How much free travel's on the slave cylinder arm before the thrust bearing makes contact with the clutch cover? Is the slave cylinder off the MX5?

this is technically all mx5 setup. There is very little slack between the clutch and release bearing (new also) and it looks to move enough to press the springs. I added washers on the end of the push rod where it pushed the fork to try and gain some extra push that didn't seem to change anything.

[wildo105e]

is the main shaft stuck or seized in the crank spigot bearing? that will behave exactly same as a dragging clutch

Well Graham you've nailed it again.

After months of losing heart i decided to get the engine out over christmas. Split the gearbox off today and the spigot bearing was well and truly crushed and destroyed. I assume this has been done by me mounting the gearbox on my own and getting it miss aligned etc and winding the bolts up on the bell housing (lesson learnt). The down side of all this constant engine removal is the the captive nuts in the chassis legs had given up the ghost. Fortunately i have som inserts i have been putting off installing. Next job then.

[rallyrob]

After months of losing heart i decided to get the engine out over christmas. Split the gearbox off today and the spigot bearing was well and truly crushed and destroyed. I assume this has been done by me mounting the gearbox on my own and getting it miss aligned etc and winding the bolts up on the bell housing (lesson learnt). The down side of all this constant engine removal is the the captive nuts in the chassis legs had given up the ghost. Fortunately i have som inserts i have been putting off installing. Next job then.

That's interesting as that's the sort of thing I would normally do, wind the bell housing bolts right in!

My kids bought me a cheap clutch alignment tool for Christmas with lots of different size attachments in, hopefully with all the sizes I'm ever likely to need.

When you say you've got some inserts for the chassis legs I take it you mean threaded inserts?

Mine's tubed so I can just nut and bolt straight through. Just means you never have to think about threaded inserts breaking loose or stripping out.

[Graham]

That's interesting as that's the sort of thing I would normally do, wind the bell housing bolts right in!

you wouldnt believe how many busted bellhousings/blocks/clutches ive seen from people doing that, if the alignment is right you dont need to do that

[rallyrob]

you wouldnt believe how many busted bellhousings/blocks/clutches ive seen from people doing that, if the alignment is right you dont need to do that

Having said that I've also stopped when realising they're still not going together properly as well.

[wildo105e]

I am not sure what went wrong really. I used an alignment tool and it did seem to go on ok. Probably trying to lift wriggle and shove all in one go. I have a new bearing in anticipation so once i finally get the old one out good to go, but i will get assistance next time.

The chassis inserts are a machined threaded one, i think they came from historic motorsport TBH should have done this mod a long time ago.

[wildo105e]

Another thing i have noticed also is that the paint burnt off the exhaust on manifold on pistons 3 and 4. Looking in the engine the valves are also white compared to 1 and 2 piston. Is this significant ?? I have ran the engine excessively in the garage and all the mapping is generic from emerald for their duratec setup (throttle bodies and exhaust). Don't want to install more issues again !!

Cheers

[katana]

If the valves are showing that lean in the garage (ie. without serious load) then something is amiss. With static tuning there really shouldn't be any noticeable difference between cylinders. I'd suggest its deffo fuel related - dicky injectors or wiring or massive air leak. You could run an engine for days at fast idle and the valves wouldn't be anything but browny black! All set-up MAP's are just that, something to get the engine running so it could (at a push) drive to a dyno for correct tuning - but this sounds more faulty installation?

[wildo105e]

Thanks Katana, pronanly reinforces what i was thinking. Also if it was tuning this would apply to all cylinders as my setup isn't that sophistcated enough to have tuning for individual cyclinders. I was thinking the most likely would be an air leak on the throttle body for 3-4 cylinders.

[wildo105e]

So weekend update, I had a spare spigot bearing from x-power. Not to be caught again i trial fitted it on the gearbox just to check size etc. One way it fitted fine and the other way was very tight to the point if fitting the good way it took some effort to actually get the bearing slide completely over the shaft.

In use i suspect the gear box should never pass through the spigot completely as that would nearly be in contact with the crank. so the tight end was fitted to the crank side (this may have been my mistake last time).

Clutch back on all lined up would it it go on would it heck and defo loathed to force it this time after plenty of time struggling and tea it was off with the clutch and test fit the box into just the bearing which it did straight away.

clutch back on it and try again and it just dropped back on with no force.

Next on the list is to build a testing bracket so i can operate the clutch on the garage floor.

Not leaving anything to chance this time

[katana]

Next on the list is to build a testing bracket so i can operate the clutch on the garage floor.

Wouldn't it be just as easy to make a new long hydraulic hose from in car fitted clutch master to the box clutch slave on the floor? You'd also get to feel what it'd be like for real, in use!

[wildo105e]

I did make up an extension pipe so i could test it on the floor but my spare bits only went as far as it had to be under the car on the floor. When i tested it like this last time the fork moved and that seemed good enough for me (hindsight etc). On the mx5 box the slave cylinder bolts on with 2 x 8 mm bolts so it would only be a piece of box section with some threaded bar i could wind up on a nut to push the fork enough to give me confidence things look good before i lug whole lot around under the car then test with the slave fitted.

On my first install the clutch did work just bad luck on the second change of engine I think. It's been a Saga this one.