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Thread: 1906cc x/flow build.

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    1906cc x/flow build.

    it seems i only build an x/flow once every 10 years! but my latest effort might interest some of you

    https://youtu.be/d0IsCZp3rw4

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Great video. Reminds me of when I did my 3.5 cologne engine. With the 84mm stroke the rods hit the block, the bottom of the bores and the oil pump. All required a lot of grinding and plenty of time consuming dummy builds to check clearances.
    But the rewards of the extra torque make it all worth while. Keep up the good work Graham

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    is that an ike crank ?

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Watched earlier this morning, and I was wondering - what else can interfere with that crank's rotation? LOL! Is the 1906cc the sort of 'practical' limit or could it go bigger, say 2.0L ?

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Quote Originally Posted by katana View Post
    Watched earlier this morning, and I was wondering - what else can interfere with that crank's rotation? LOL! Is the 1906cc the sort of 'practical' limit or could it go bigger, say 2.0L ?
    its an 85mm bore, so is pushing the boundaries of even an AX block, if you designed a crank with smaller crank pins you could probably get to 86 or 87mm stroke and thus 2.0

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Very interested in outcome of this engine project, just started gathering bits for similar exercise, ax block 86mm pistons, 86mm steel crank , throttle bodies, DTA ecu & wiring etc.
    Need to get on the case with fuel pumps , filters & tank soon.
    Will probs couple up to a new 5 spped close ratio from BGH.

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Quote Originally Posted by piekey View Post
    Very interested in outcome of this engine project, just started gathering bits for similar exercise, ax block 86mm pistons, 86mm steel crank , throttle bodies, DTA ecu & wiring etc.
    Wow! - all square engine + steel crank and decent rods?, it could be a screamer! But I guess the limiting factor is then the cylinder head ie. can you get enough valve area? I suppose with the bigger bore, offsetting the valves is always an option? I think if I had gone that far - swapping to a twin cam head or even some other manufacturer 4V head could pay off - its not exactly a cheap, 'run to the shops', engine is it LOL!

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Love builds like this. There was mk1 cortina runing a 1900 pre cross flow a while back "toby " I think he was called and it was built by Nick Stagg. As Katana says i think they are built for love and challenge.


    Keep the updates coming.
    Last edited by wildo105e; 17-11-2021 at 12:25.

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    I've had the block in stock for some time,owes me beer money. most other bits have been begged, stole or borrowed for keeps. oh hi lift roller rockers came in cheap as did a very little used A8/104 degree cam.
    brand new, hard cash bits are ECU , Loom & fuel pumps ,plumbing.
    was getting 186bhp from an all steel 1700 a few yrs ago, so we're expecting a 12 to 15% increase on bore/stroke & injection.

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Yes Graham!! I like that Happy you found a way to youtube. didn't know you had a channel. But gonne see all the video's!! Keep up the good work. Will check here to!

    Ford Taunus Going RS2300 16v with 48s!!!

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    I always thought ax blocks were things of legends and unicorns. Loved watching it and waiting for the next one..

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbo m View Post
    I always thought ax blocks were things of legends and unicorns. Loved watching it and waiting for the next one..
    apparently caterham bought loads of them, so they are not hard to find in caterham circles as lots of them are being upgraded with more modern engines

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    and the blocks were also produced in S.A. - same casting no on front of block rather than the back like 711m BUT no AX casting.
    they are commonly imported now in classics being brought in from SA. apparently they were used quite late over there in sierras.
    i just sold a complete one from my current project.

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    in part two i start chucking bits away, literally

    https://youtu.be/o1Ha6skRYcM

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Just watched the vid Graham and surprised the head was scrapped ! You mentioned reasons against adding an Inlet seat but what if you did and then added weld between the two making them into a 'spectacle' seat? I'm sure i've seen this done on other engines as it seems a shame to 'boat anchor' an otherwise good head. We often get cracks between the valve seats and the valve seat to plug hole in older Suzuki 4V engines - they run fine regardless, just sayin'

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Quote Originally Posted by katana View Post
    Just watched the vid Graham and surprised the head was scrapped ! You mentioned reasons against adding an Inlet seat but what if you did and then added weld between the two making them into a 'spectacle' seat? I'm sure i've seen this done on other engines as it seems a shame to 'boat anchor' an otherwise good head. We often get cracks between the valve seats and the valve seat to plug hole in older Suzuki 4V engines - they run fine regardless, just sayin'
    the head hasn't literally been scrapped, but if you insert both valves the seats will overlap, the exhaust seat as it is is scarily skinny.

    X/f heads are not rare enough to warrant using an iffy head on what will be an expensive engine, the owner has already left me two more!

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.


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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Good tip on the knurled valve guides - new reamers are nice but sometimes a PITA LOL! Moving along I'm dying to see the bike carbs - didn't look wonderful from the clip tbh!

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Quote Originally Posted by katana View Post
    Moving along I'm dying to see the bike carbs - didn't look wonderful from the clip tbh!
    to be fair to them they worked, and would of been better than a pair of 40 DCOE............................

    the video footage wasnt great induction pulses were clearing effecting the camera!
    Last edited by Graham; 26-03-2022 at 14:07.

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    great video Graham as usual keep up the good work.

    is that 648 you're using on the guides? love that stuff works really well in those type of applications. awesome for a bit of added safety on core plugs too

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    opps i forgot about this, but not the engine

    part 4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2w0...fkVpgk&index=8

    part 5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSwW...fkVpgk&index=9

    exhaust manifold swap https://youtu.be/DF2-f-dcQVM

    32 v 33 choke comparison https://youtu.be/I5vDugDf3Vc

    upgrading from 40 dcoe to 45's https://youtu.be/3Ab2COHwqFA
    Last edited by Graham; 22-01-2023 at 22:25.

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Graham, did you get the AFR correct in the end across the rev-range? Did you try emulsion tubes other than the F7's?

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    WOT a little rich low down, but the current combo with F7 is the best ive had yet, its really fussy @ 5k it wants to go lean at that point and hard to get enough fuel in without being very rich lower down. cant remember all the combos but F7's worked better than F11 or F16

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    great series Graham, il be embarking on an XF build shortly so watching with interest - keep the content coming.

    p.s im delighted you finally despelled the argument of 40 vs 45 with the similar chokes - i dont know how many times ive had this discussion with people - no arguing there !

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Hello Graham,

    just read the article about the 1900 XFlow in the latest CF magazine. And viewed the youtube video on the 123-distributor vs. the Lucas item .

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqzh1pzM4WU

    Now I see a bit of a difference between the power-graph of the comparison between the two in the CF article and the video. The numbers on the y-axis are different but still there is a difference. Is that correct?

    Regards, Leon.


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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miniliteman View Post
    Hello Graham,

    just read the article about the 1900 XFlow in the latest CF magazine. And viewed the youtube video on the 123-distributor vs. the Lucas item .

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kqzh1pzM4WU

    Now I see a bit of a difference between the power-graph of the comparison between the two in the CF article and the video. The numbers on the y-axis are different but still there is a difference. Is that correct?

    Regards, Leon.

    its because i didnt use the same graph, it was the same data in both cases. it was quicker and easier to get the dyno computer to do me a new graph than try and find the one i used for CF.

    The dyno software always plots the graphs to make the peaks at a similar height, but because every one likes to see power and torque cross at 5252 i manually rescale the graphs.
    looking at the screen shot you took I made something of an error in that i didn't quite use the same scale for torque and bhp, that will change the shape of the graph but not the difference between tests because its still the same data

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Is the 123-ignition easy to setup? User-friendly?

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    Re: 1906cc x/flow build.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miniliteman View Post
    Is the 123-ignition easy to setup? User-friendly?
    Fairly, it was an older version so programmed with a USB lead not blue tooth like the newer ones.

    i used a timing light to map the curve in the previous distributor and initally copied it in the the 123 best as i could. One curious point was that the 123 distributor didnt match the engine rpm as read by the dyno or snap on timing light, which seemed odd. As did the rev limiter function, i had to set the limiter at 8k to get the engine to rev to 7500 without missfiring.

    if you ask me it doesnt have another data points to be really good, only 7 rpm points to cover from cranking right upto whatever your maximum is.

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