Duratec ARP crank pulley bolt

[Aaron80]

Hi Guys.

Received an ARP front crank bolt #251-2501 from Burtons with no instructions. Does anyone have a copy of or know the official ARP fitting instructions for this bolt? I have emailed ARP but am still awaiting their repying, so thought one of you guys might be able to help in the meantime and let me get cracking with my install.

Torque setting:
Google led me to Biggles' page that suggests 112 ft/lbs with ARP lube
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/88610949...s---Bigglesnet
This advice from Kent Cams says 145 ft/lbs with ARP lube and 185 ft/lbs with engine oil (I pressume)
http://rsmotorsport.com.au/forums/vi...2489&start=300

Which is correct?

Torque setting aside, I assume the ARP lube is applied to both the thread and under the bolt head? Are there other more commonly available lube options that can be used instead of the ARP lube or would a threadlocker like a loctite still be suitable? It's a bit of a struggle to find ARP products stocked locally here in sleepy old Perth Aus! If it makes any differerence I wont be using the washer either as I'm running a small dry sump pump pulley under the crank bolt which won't fit the washer.

BTW I wish Ford (mazda) used a keyway in their cranks!

Cheers guys!

[anguz]

http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Info_sheets/D...%20Duratec.pdf


i always thought the washer was diamond dusted, and critical to locking the pulley or is that just the standard item ?

[dobuy]

The only way you can not use one or both of the diamond washers is to have a keyway, if you don't use the washers, then it really doesn't matter what torque you use, you will ruin your engine, as the pulley will slip.

You could probably use a graphite engine building grease instead of the ARP lube, to be honest you are unlikely to damage anything by using the higher torque setting (145)

[Aaron80]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I will be retaining the washers on either side of the crank sprocket, I believe these washers are diamond dusted. There doesnt seem to be any mention of the washer under the bolt head being diamond dusted. Another question I will have for ARP I guess! Here's a picture of my setup. The two pulleys are separate, perhaps I should have a couple of dowels made up so the two pulleys don't slip on each other?

Also found this for some additional handy reference. Pages 30-33 discuss timing setup and also refers to the diamond washers:

http://www.fordtechservice.dealercon...es/30N25F0.pdf

[dobuy]

The washers are to stop the camchain pulley inside the timing cover from slipping against the crank on one side and the front belt pulley on the other side.
The result is the camchain pulley is locked correctly to the crank so the cam timing does not slip and also that the Crank pulley is locked to the camchain pulley, so the trigger wheel controlled ignition timing does not slip.

No need to worry about the dry sump pulley slipping very slightly against the crank pulley unless of course it comes loose.

[Aaron80]

Thanks dobuy. Yes, I'm familiar with the issue of the crank/camchain sprocket slipping - I had borrowed the engine assembly instructions from your website, so can see how it's been designed. Thanks for that also!

My issue is whether or not I can get away without using the crank bolt washer as it won't fit inside the sump pump pulley. By the sounds of things though, that should be ok?

[dobuy]

yes that is fine to leave the crank bolt washer out, the Titian dry sump with external pump that I had on my first DS duratec has run 5000+ track miles like this with no problems

[Aaron80]

Thanks dobuy, that gives me good confidence to know you've run a similar setup.

I just spoke to ARP and they suggested 100ft/lbs with their lube, but I think I will stick with a slightly higher setting just to be sure.

Cheers.

[team_zi]

I read somewhere to torque it to 100Nm and then turn it a further 90Degs !

[Erikmex]

Thanks dobuy, that gives me good confidence to know you've run a similar setup.

I just spoke to ARP and they suggested 100ft/lbs with their lube, but I think I will stick with a slightly higher setting just to be sure.

Cheers.

Don't over torque the bolt, over tightening is the most common cause of shearing bolts, use the correct lube too as the torque is calculated with the coefficient of friction for that exact lube, I work with high pressure gas systems in the oil industry and bolt torque varies massively depending on the type of lubricant used.

[James-HPE]

If ARP have said 100lbft, why would you do it tighter?

[Erikmex]

Yep I second that, if I'm correct arp bolts are high tensile .....over torque and you will stretch the bolt beyond its elastic limit which will reduce its clamping force and make it more prone to shear....especially when you add some vibration into the equation.

[dobuy]

I wasn't suggesting over torquing it, but using the 112 ft/lbs with ARP lube number that I originally got from ARP literature, big difference between that and over torquing

[Aaron80]

Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback.

I have managed to source the recommended ARP lube and will set to recommended torque. FYI the 100ft/lbs followed by 90 degrees setting referred to by grahamb is for the OEM bolt which the manual does not specify lubricating so I think the higher torque setting of the OEM bolt is perhaps required to overcome friction with no lube being used.

On another matter, according to the manual the diamond washers on either side of the timing chain crank sprocket are not reusable, I assume that means they can only be clamped down on once and therefore loosening the crank pulley bolt = new washers, this despite not even touching the washers or front engine cover for that matter. Perhaps overly cautious, but I've ordered a new set of diamond washers and will add that to my growing list of to do's!!

Cheers.

[dobuy]

If the diamond washers are fairly new they will be fine, it is just if the engine has a fair bit of mileage that they should be changed.
I believe the grip these things give is quite amazing and mean they are very unlikely to slip
That was the advice I was given by those who build these engines for a living.

[Roadsport]

Heres my two pence. Use the diamond washers. New to sleep better but I for one have reused the old ones. Use the ARP cataloque torque spec. For extra security you could use a Nordlock locking washer under the bolt head. I have for three years running an dry sump Zetec SE race engine (no keys, nor friction washer used on these engines) .
The difference in ARP torque spec and OEM torque spec is in the bolt material. OEM beeing softer, a bit more spring like if you will, needs to be streched to a certain extendt to achieve highest clamping force and tension. The ARP is propably tougher and would yeld or brake with the 90 degree turn. The clamping force will propably be the same or a bit higher with the ARP bolt. In my book theres never any reason to exceed the given torque spec.

[rangergt]

I think ARP needs to slap around their customer tech support because it's some what lack luster. This really should be a simple answer but we have conflicting advice and I will say this, DON'T use the 100ft lbs of torque spec. I did and my crank pulley came loose, every valve hit the pistons, thanks arp. I dug a little deeper and if you look at the catalogue on their website they have a page that gives recommended torque values for a given size and material of the fastener. The crank bolt is 200 000 psi material and 14mm diameter. According to their info, a fastener of this size and material should be torqued to 184 ft lbs. They really should do a better job at providing proper torque specs, is it really that hard to include it with the bolt?

[Aaron80]

Thanks rangergt. I had set my torque at 100ft lbs based on ARP's original advice, but seeing your post today had me worried. I just rang ARP and this time I have been told something different! 140ft lbs is the recommended setting. I told the phone operator I had previously been advised 100ft lbs when I spoke to them a few weeks ago and he said I may have been given the wrong torque figure! I also mentioned the 184ft lbs setting referred to on their website in the US standard torque values table. I was abruptly interrupted and told I should read the footnote in red which reads - "The torque values represented here are intended to be for general information only, not for specific installations". Could they be saying the max setting for the bolt is 184, but for the specific application of holding a crank pulley and crank sprocket is only 140? Who knows... What's the use of having general information if it's not to be used? You are right, something this simple shouldn't be so hard.

Perhaps the change in recommended torque from 100 to 140 is a result of customer complaints/failures? Or maybe they didnt understand my Aussie accent when i spoke to them last time (pretty sure i got them to repeat back to me the part number i gave to them when I phoned the first time). Lucky for me I'm still a couple of months away from turning the engine over so no harm done. I will set to 140 and pray ARP know what they are doing!

Thanks again!

[bmcme]

Sorry, completely off the topic but, Rangergt, do you know where I can get a turbo exhaust manifold to suit rear wheel drive car? Am fitting it to a Mark 1 Escort with a 2ltr Duratec.

Cheers for that.

[rangergt]

Well how about I answer the question in this thread so we don't take this thread off topic and it is more relevant to that thread anyway.

[doughman]

Where's the best place to get the crank washers?

[Aaron80]

Where's the best place to get the crank washers?

Try either ford themselves or burtons:

http://www.burtonpower.com/crank-spr...i4-pr6716.html

[Durescort]

Re crank bolt torque: I use a ARP bolt on mine without a washer but used moly. lube on the threads and under the flange-head to minimise friction/maximise tension.
As for torque, I got hold of some torque recommendations of some other sizes of ARP bolts off their packaging, and then plotted a graph of bolt diameter against "torque with ARP lube" then extrapolated it to the M14 crank bolt. (makes a very satisfying and predictable looking graph to make you feel warm and fuzzy)
It came out at 135 Lb.Ft (with lube) so that's what I have used all along and I have not had an issue with this figure over 4 race seasons.
Apart from that, when you have spent too much of your life on the other end of a torque wrench, you can "feel" when a bolt is torqued correctly, or when you have taken it to "yield".
I have never had a bolt come loose or break yet, (touch wood LOL)

[doughman]

http://caterhamparts.co.uk/product.php?id_product=3795

Is this the same?
A whole lot cheaper!

[Gizmoraeny]

Hi there all, probably a little to late, but i just fitted an ARP bolt recently, Torque on the packet was 140 with lube on threads and both sides of the washer.

Cheers

[rangergt]

I never advocate going outside a manufacturers specs but when they can't give them to you properly or at all, then you have to be able to come up with a solution for yourself. That's what I had to do, so I did and it works for me so I use it. It's good to see they finally put a torque spec with the bolt now, better late then never.