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Thread: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

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    ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    To remove the VVT pulley from the ST170, I have info on pluging the oil ways in the head. But not sure about what is needed to fit the Zetec vernier pulley. Think its a washer spacer to fill the gap from the pulley to the cam seal but can't find any info.
    Hole inside the O ring needs to be tapped, M6 and grub screw fitted.
    Click image for larger version Name:	DSC02572.jpg Views:	739 Size:	34.0 KB ID:	58620

    And the VVT solenoid can be removed and an 18mm core plug fitted.
    Click image for larger version Name:	DSC02570.jpg Views:	737 Size:	37.0 KB ID:	58621

    Anyone got any more info.

    Cheers

    Rob

  2. #2

    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Quote Originally Posted by robrs2 View Post
    To remove the VVT pulley from the ST170, I have info on pluging the oil ways in the head. But not sure about what is needed to fit the Zetec vernier pulley. Think its a washer spacer to fill the gap from the pulley to the cam seal but can't find any info.
    Hole inside the O ring needs to be tapped, M6 and grub screw fitted.
    Attachment 58620
    And the VVT solenoid can be removed and an 18mm core plug fitted.
    Attachment 58621

    Anyone got any more info.

    Cheers

    Rob
    There is no spacer needed it is part of the vernier

  3. #3

    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Forgot to say make sure the vernier's are for the st engine as they are different from the std silver and black top, ask Catcams for further info.

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Standard zetec pulleys fitted to the ST here using a spacer

    Click image for larger version Name:	pulleys1.jpg Views:	699 Size:	39.9 KB ID:	58658

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    I have done this on mine..... Can't remember the measurements now as it was a couple of years ago...
    Best thing to do is get the new pulleys, remove the inlet cam and take them to someone who can make you the spacer..
    Last edited by BeanBox; 03-09-2012 at 22:56.

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Cheers. Its it almost a flat type washer? I'll get on to a local machine shop.

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    I only paid 50 for a machine shop to make it... I would of removed mine and measured it for you but I had it welded to the cam...

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Found these of the american ZX2. Almost like the ST but on the exhaust cam

    Click image for larger version Name:	IMAG0024.jpg Views:	15 Size:	112.3 KB ID:	58680
    Click image for larger version Name:	IMAG0025.jpg Views:	15 Size:	107.3 KB ID:	58681
    Click image for larger version Name:	imagesCAP75QXC.jpg Views:	683 Size:	7.2 KB ID:	58682
    Click image for larger version Name:	Massive SVT VCT Delete Kit.jpg Views:	20 Size:	55.3 KB ID:	58683

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    I was going to get one of those... I emailed him and he had none in stock so I had mine machined... That looks just like mine so should work......

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Hi hope someone on here can help, i have a st170 engine in my Kit car on Omex 600 & GSXR Throttle Bodies and i want to get rid of the VVT inlet vernier.
    I already have a vernier on the exhaust cam set to 6deg retarded and the VVT kicks in at 3000rpm/20% throttle but it struggles to rev past 6250rpm i'm told due to the VVT not being optimal

    Can i just do the above mods to the head & camshaft cover to block the oil ways, get a spacer washer made up and then fit a Zetec Vernier on the inlet and time it all up and that will work?

    Does anyone know what sort of power can be had off the standard cam's without the VVT?

    I did trying running the engine with the output switched off to the solenoid and it just would not rev under load struggled to even get to 3000rpm

    Any help would be much appreciated

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    I believe you can just fit the washer, but pluging the oilway may stop excess oil pressure to the camseal?

    Unless you can get the inlet cam to move to a set position then its only retarded or advance fully without the control. I have read that someone just reset the standard vvt pulley to set it at 0 advance and disconnected the solenoid. Best with a fixed zetec pulley.

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    What Camshaft Pulley can you use on the Inlet? Just a normal Zetec Vernier or Zetec Vernier??
    or can i use another ST170 Exhaust Cam Vernier?

    I've just order the Kit from Massive Speed cost 30 including delivery to UK

    but pluging the oilway may stop excess oil pressure to the camseal
    Do you mean the above method you have put up (in the pictures) will cause issues with the camseal?
    Last edited by silky16v; 09-10-2012 at 12:53.

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Quote Originally Posted by silky16v View Post
    What Camshaft Pulley can you use on the Inlet? Just a normal Zetec Vernier or Zetec Vernier??
    or can i use another ST170 Exhaust Cam Vernier?
    The cam wheels on the zetec are the same on the inlet and exhaust. The ST170 Exhaust cam wheel is the same as a zetec. You may need to drill out the Zetec cam wheel centre hole to fit the bolt on the ST170 inlet. It may be bigger than the zetec one.



    Quote Originally Posted by silky16v View Post
    Do you mean the above method you have put up (in the pictures) will cause issues with the camseal?
    No, as the seals hold the pressure in normal use. Just saves loads of oil being behind the cam wheel if you take it off.

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Quote Originally Posted by robrs2 View Post
    The cam wheels on the zetec are the same on the inlet and exhaust. The ST170 Exhaust cam wheel is the same as a zetec. You may need to drill out the Zetec cam wheel centre hole to fit the bolt on the ST170 inlet. It may be bigger than the zetec one.





    No, as the seals hold the pressure in normal use. Just saves loads of oil being behind the cam wheel if you take it off.

    ok cool i'll just get another ST170 exhaust vernier for the inlet then?

    and for the oil seal i'll just carry out the above pictures and i should be ok?

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Good news on the 170bhp@wheels. Looks like verniers on the ST are the way forward

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Hi, got the car mapped yesterday very happy with the results haven't had time to drive it on road yet due to the rain (going out this morning)

    The car made 175bhp@wheels and 148ft-lb torque@wheels

    If you factor about 15% on top of those for a estimated Flywheel power so that is just over 200bhp & 170ft-lb Torque, tbh I'm only interested in the power@wheels and how it drives

    I have the fuel pressure set@45psi so the power is just on the limit of the injectors@80%, I plan to go back and alter the cam position to see if there is further bhp to be extracted, but for the moment I'm just going to enjoy it

    http://youtu.be/6zgumciKNL8

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Old graph with estimated Flywheel power, you can clearly see after 4700rpm it stopped making anymore power



    New RR Graph with power measured@the wheels the tiny dip@5000rpm is the inlet cam just coming on (the plans is alter the static cam timing to try take this out)
    I'm also planning to increase the exhaust manifold port size up to 2.5" diameter and have the exhaust port flowed to match, this should hopefully allow the engine to carry on making power right past 7000rpm

    But for the moment i'm just going to enjoy as it is, anyone who has this engine and has the setup so it an on/off to control the inlet camshaft, i would strongly recommend changing it to fixed cam timing.

    The Car is so much more enjoyable to drive & usable


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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Glad this worked as I still haven't started mine lol.....

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Looks to being restricted from 5000rpm upwards. What size inlet and throttle bodies are you running?

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Quite interested in this.

    My mate has a 1.8Zetec on Twin 45 Webers and Omex 200 with hotter cams and makes 160bhp.

    The ST170 engine is the ideal upgrade but the VVT is a bit of a waste.

    Does this block have the same chocolate rod bolts as the standard Zetec.

    In addition, someone mentioned about oilpump problems above 7400rpm. True?

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    ST engine was updated by cosworth. It's fitted with stronger fractured cap rods and better pistons.
    The oil pump was also done but I have not found out how much better than the zetec it is.

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    So is this with the cat cams or just the standard cam fixed? What pulley have you used? Or still the standard? Cheers

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Quote Originally Posted by lee edwards View Post
    So is this with the cat cams or just the standard cam fixed? What pulley have you used? Or still the standard? Cheers
    Standard cams, used a normal Zetec vernier with the centre drilled out to 12mm have a read of my thread on Locost Builders http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/view...php?tid=175158

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    What is the inlet cam timed in at?
    The best drivers have dead flies on the side windows.

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Quote Originally Posted by dynoman View Post
    What is the inlet cam timed in at?
    All the info is on my post on Locost Builders

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Rough setting 109deg same as zetec. Then tweek for best.
    Just been to the dyno of a zetec today. Lots done , cams, ported, on throttle bodies. Did 174bhp at 6900rpm
    Lad was disappointed but as the st head has bigger ports and valves didn't think 174 was bad for a zetec.

    Want to get mine on the rollers next

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Hi all,

    I hope this thread is still alive. Can you help me with something that is bringing me to tears please.

    Just had ST170 engine rebuilt with stage 2 head and deleted the VVT. Ordered Piper Cams adjustable pulleys from Retro Ford. Fitting was easy but noticed the cam belt was trying to slip off. After checking the fitment everything was bolted up correctly. The cam belt is being thrown off by what seems to be an off centred faulty inlet pulley as shown in the vid below. That pulley is also sitting around 1.5mm towards the engine side so the pulleys are not equally aligned. What have those guys sold to me? Is this a faulty Zetec pulley they pulled out the trash or something? They are not answering emails or honouring a replacement saying I damaged it which is impossible, I treated it with great care like it was plutonium!

    Also the bolt they gave me in the kit is some crap standard bolt with a washer. Nothing like what I see in their advertising pics. Have I been shafted or is there a logical explanation for this?

    https://youtu.be/QZZReEB93qU

    cheers
    Chris

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    ok since posting that last post I am a bit more educated about the tuning of the ST170 with VVT delete. After months on and off the rollers and working with Tom@HPDyno here are my best settings for both cams. In every test I found that advancing the inlet to almost full is the only way to get the power level to increase anywhere in the graph.

    1. 30 degree advance inlet / Standard exhaust position (All bottom end power upto 5k)
    2. 30 degree advance inlet / -8 degree exhaust (power upto 4k then dip, then power upto 8k)

    The second is my current setting as it is good for daily driving. When the foot is down you are always hitting the upper band 5k+ so the dip in between becomes irrelevant unless you are a generally heavy foot driver

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    But how was the wonky vernier wheel resolved?

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Much better to keep the VVT and use an ECU that can control it properly like the Link Monsoon, its actually a really good implementation of variable valve control and is fully variable giving a much better torque spread.
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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Quote Originally Posted by cjellwood View Post
    1. 30 degree advance inlet / Standard exhaust position (All bottom end power upto 5k)
    2. 30 degree advance inlet / -8 degree exhaust (power upto 4k then dip, then power upto 8k)
    Do you have any printouts of the runs.

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Quote Originally Posted by katana View Post
    But how was the wonky vernier wheel resolved?
    I took it to a an engineering firm who put it on lathe and tapped it about until it was better. You can still see some wiggling but it does not throw the belt off which is better than before. Still not happy with PiperCams and RetroFord for ignoring me when I reported the fault. No printout as of yet but I know the figures off the screen and will be going back for a final roll in two weeks after replacing the idle control valve and TPS, one of which is causing issues. The issue is that the car dies out after 25 miles of driving and has to stop and start again to go back to normal. Error codes are TPS and alternator voltage. Idle is erratic so got to start somewhere. The only physical issue I know of is a leaking rear main seal but cant see how that would affect the idle
    Last edited by cjellwood; 18-03-2018 at 22:53.

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Can't see how alternator voltage will affect unless the battery voltage is dropping so low to drop the ECU - but then its shouldn't re-start? I'd deffo look at the TPS as if the track is gone/dirty at closed throttle it will definitely affect idle - a relatively simple fix.

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    TBH it seems more work to delete the vvt than keep it, like the monsoon Clint supplies, the emerald K6 we supply has full VVT control, mapped correctly a standard engine in good shape will make give or take a fraction 200bhp on throttle bodies, so all i can see is doing away with it is wasting a lot of power

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Emerald cant run the vct on the ST170. Asked them about it as i have a K6 ecu. Unless thats changed?

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Quote Originally Posted by robrs2 View Post
    Emerald cant run the vct on the ST170. Asked them about it as i have a K6 ecu. Unless thats changed?
    thats changed, it absolutely can, well at least the newer ones, it may be you have an earlier one which cant

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    I'll have to phone them on Monday and find out if mine can be modded.

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    If it’s a K6 then it will run VVT as ford intended it, K3 can’t be modified.

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Well my K6 can be upgraded but its another 100 plus vat and postage. So i need to weigh up it gain against valve

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    Re: ST170 VVT Delete ?? Washer/spacer

    Quote Originally Posted by robrs2 View Post
    Well my K6 can be upgraded but its another 100 plus vat and postage. So i need to weigh up it gain against valve
    if someone offered you an extra 10 bhp for 100 you'd probably take it, a full working vvt is worth more than 10bhp at the top end

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