Haha well yours is obviously set up a hell of a lot better than mine was
Ie 10mpg, oiling plugs every few miles, inlet manifold cracking, misfiring constantly!! I wish the guy who had built yours built mine aswell haha
Haha well yours is obviously set up a hell of a lot better than mine was
Ie 10mpg, oiling plugs every few miles, inlet manifold cracking, misfiring constantly!! I wish the guy who had built yours built mine aswell haha
Lol,I built mine myself, (check retro ford dec 12)
Tbh mine had misfiring issues wen I first built it using Ngk bp8es plugs.....but as I was using a 5 turbo carb I fitted 5turbo plugs (b8evx) gapped them accordingly and it's spot on
Sounds like yours was a nightmare!!
Absolutely waste of time and money mate. And my supposed "mate" who built it turned out to be a right CNUT and stiffed me out of a load of money for what was basically a shit motor that made 100hp max!! And if any turbo xflow parts come up for sale that are related to my car I would stay clear of them and the guy selling them lol!!
What power was you quoted??
That's shit news mate,sorry to hear.
I'm lucky enough to say "if you want something right,build it yourself "
I got a very slight 4th gear wheel spin in the damp (open diff) tho lol
So it CAN work
Initial aim was 150hp.....after a few weeks that dropped to 130hp.....and when finally finished and installed in the car it couldn't put a clean pull down on the dyno because of the ridiculous misfiring, over fuelling and general shit running!! But IMHO my 1.3 xflow, fast road cam, 32/36carb is on par of not quicker and I reckon it's probably only putting out 80-90hp :|!! If the engine had ran without misfiring it may have made around 110hp but not much more
Here's a couple of setups that guys in our club were using.
Sorry, no idea on power or anything.
Very nice and basic setup with the Weber carb. Turbo looks big but anyway, more fun than standard atmo engine. Suck-through setup. Most simple installation. You can have troubles, freezing and sealing the turbo can be tricky but if setup correct, as much fun as with any other setup, even injection. The first Renault 5 Alpine turbo was suck-through setup. Ran like crazy. Against freezing, the trick is to keep the tube from the turbo to the manifold very small for high speed. (I would not use polished SS.) And as you can see, heating the carburetor is not a bad idea if it is used a lot in normal traffic.
With turbo's, keep it all basic and you will succeed. It's when people try to be complex, turbo will go wrong much faster as atmo engine. Don't change cams unless you know very well what you doing etc...and try a carb if you are not common with fuel injection. It's not so over complicated, at least not in Suck-through configuration. But be sure you got the right turbo. With an SU carburetor, you can fit the carb with no throttle plate on the intake of the turbo. Fit the throttle plate between the turbo exit and the inlet manifold. Bingo, no need for a special seal (but it's not worse if you got the special seal there).
Mixed thoughts I can see where people are coming from on all sides . I am still none the wiser if to keep looking for parts or just build a fast road xflow. Thanks gents.
I just re-read my post just to be clear I was not trying to be funny was just being polite .
In my opinion you'll be better off building a fast road NA xflow or pinto !
Just my opinion though guys
OK, this can be worked out. But I feel you did not gave us enough information. I do project engines on a regular basic for customers so we need the know more things about you to find out what fits best for you.
-are you common with carburetors? Or do you prefer fuel injection (and than I mean you understand fuel injection and this is NOT your first time playing with it). Or you leave the tuning to a pro, than you have to ask him for carb or fuel injection.
-what's your power target ?
-do you want to build it up yourself or send it to a pro again (if you build yourself we may have to select as many "off the shelve parts" as possible to make building easier). Unless you are very good in building special parts like some of them in the pictures send here.
-what's your budget? The most important question. People never want to talk about it but it is the most important. It has no sense to talk about steel cranks, forget pistons, etc... if you budget does not stretch so far. You have to put a target on any project or it will be an "unfinished project".
I've been using the HIF SU. Latest version, integrated float chamber and slightly bigger internal than the older versions. That would be more than enough for a 1200 cc engine. Last time I was using it on a Volvo 1800 cc. Be sure you got a turbo with a special seal or split the throttle valve. Keep inlet track minimum, NO intercooler possible!!! and use very small internal tubes from turbo to manifold.
What 1200 cc engine are you using, the Vauxhall / Opel 1200 cc pushrod engine? For small engines you can easy use the R5 GT Turbo carb or one of the carbs from other Renault turbo engines. Blow-through. There are some new for sale on ebay. It's when engines get bigger and power outputs get higher it's more difficult to find "automotive turbo carbs".
I'm currently developing a single turbo carburetor started from a single ICH carb. We need it to turbo charge Beetle engines (one left, one right). Once ready it can be used on engines up to 1600 cc and even bigger. I try to keep it less complex than the DMTL turbo I've build. And will be cheaper to.
Sorry, forgot to answer part of the question. How much max boost with suck through setup? In theory as much as you want because you don't have to seal the carburetor. In practice, you can't fit an intercooler, even charge coolers are tricky but because the inlet charge will be cooled by the vaporizing of the fuel it will stay cooler as with other setups. I should start with 500 mbar and would not go over 700 mbar. This does not mean you can't blow 2 bar with this setup. Look at drag racing cars. They blow lots of boost using Methanol. Keeps the inlet cooler. You can use water/methanol injection as I did with the Volvo to keep you out of pinking and keep the incoming mixture cooler.
I always try to split turbo's in to categories. "fun" and "racing". For fun you don't need to much pressure. Specially not with the advance of the cold air on suck through. And it will keep the engine in one piece. If you want 1,5 up to 2 bar, use electronics.
datsun/nissan A12 engine..20-25psi. possible with blow through R5 or metro carb??
1973 mk1 escort
1982 Toyota corolla ke70
1988 mk4 escort
Should be possible with the R5 carb but this is a lot of boost. Hope this is not you first turbo engine and you realize you need to build a purpose made engine for this kind of boost.
For suck through you can use any carb as long as it is big enough to supply the air (calculate the carb regarding the power of the engine and select if it was atmo). But I suggest to use Methanol or Ethanol as a fuel to keep charge cool.
Last edited by Dyno; 27-01-2013 at 20:04.
I know it's been awhile since starting this post, and fantastic reading different points of view. But after speaking to different people about turbo'ing the xflow, I think it's come down to buying an already turbo production engine. I think if I was going to stick with the xflow, if would of been in n/a form.
So you want 160 Bhp from a 1200 cc engine ? That's not as easy as it looks like. You can get 160 Bhp out of a 1600 cc with without to much troubles but getting this kind of power out of a 1200 start to be more tricky, at least not low boost.
Yes it's possible but again, I hope this is not your first engine build. Torque will come with the power (boost).
Well This is our plans for this year A Turbo X-flow ..this will be rather a special build mark my words
at the moment its still the normal asp gt 1600 so i will post as and when we get parts .
that being said all will be hand fabicated .
not started as yet but got a few parts ready the main man who when it comes to turbos and everything else (which i undertand about 10% of what he says LOL )
has come up with some good idears and has built some rather famous cars .
have a look at our site im still building it for us but theres still lots on there ..will keep you busy 4 a bit.
my escort is in projects posted on here a few years back
if it says it cant be done well ....then we shall see
http://www.carinnovation.co.uk/
Last edited by CPB; 10-02-2013 at 17:00.
I like people who have the balls to try and do it. Not just talking. Yes, you can build a turbo X-flow. Why not ???
But keep it basic and if you want a successful engine, don't go into silly high boost and keep the cam as good as standard. A standard cam with high ratio rockers will be all you need. Most "turbo projects" I've seen where already dead the day they bought the camshaft.
Mk2 2 Door Cortina, Injected Turbo 1600xf
http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=375976
Personally I'm all for it! Keep us up to date on how you get on please
http://escort.accelerator.org
1968 MK1 Escort 1300GT
1969 'Big Wing' MK1 Escort
1972 MK3 Cortina 1600XL
1984 Sierra XR4i
And other junk I don't like to talk about!
As requested, a brief update. Things have been moving pretty slowly (Having my shed knocked off and half the bits nicked didn't help), but today I finally got the sump all ready, the exhaust off and the whole thing actually in place. The fitment was just about perfect, well, at least as well as I'd actually planned, which is pretty damn tight. I swear there is a crossflow under there somewhere.
Mk2 2 Door Cortina, Injected Turbo 1600xf
http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=375976
Very nice, high tech. What inlet manifold are you using ?
Cooler than a polar bear's toenails
http://escort.accelerator.org
1968 MK1 Escort 1300GT
1969 'Big Wing' MK1 Escort
1972 MK3 Cortina 1600XL
1984 Sierra XR4i
And other junk I don't like to talk about!
is it possible for a 'sensible' charged xflow to give better mpg compared to the typical fast road spec on 40 webers
1973 mk1 escort
1982 Toyota corolla ke70
1988 mk4 escort
If we talk about "sensible" I would say yes. If you want 120 - 130 Bhp out of a road X-flow with Webers you can get the same power very easy with a low boost turbo with a lot more torque. Try to get lean numbers off boost and make it save rich when you want power and it will have approx the same mpg because most of the time you will be "off boost" driving anyway. If you are really targeting mpg I suggest to use fuel injection and Lambda WB closed loop. But for a lot less money you can have a good carburetor engine as well. Being a carburetor fan, I do realize fuel injection (if setup correct) will beat the carburetor on mpg but differences can be very small. All depend how intensive you are going to use this car (like 50.000 miles a year ?). Is it word paying the extra money if you only drive 5.000 miles a year?
Last edited by Dyno; 24-06-2013 at 08:10.
car would be daily driven, bout 15 000 miles a year max. rite now as is(1.5 16v mazda/ford engine with single 40 weber n large bore extractor, 10.6:1 cr) the car consumes about 6L more petrol on a weekly basis compared to my other half new toyota corolla.
Reading your previous post i like the idea with the suck tru SU and throttle plate, was thinking that could be the start, but eventually go on to efi, when i understand it better to tune it myself.
1973 mk1 escort
1982 Toyota corolla ke70
1988 mk4 escort
So you will swop the 1,5 16V for a turbo charged Xflow ? SU carb with the plate removed in front of the turbo and fitting a new throttle on inlet manifold does work nice. Please note you can't use intercooler (but you will not need it) and you must use a carburetor inlet manifold (I should use the small single choke carburetor manifold). Keep the inlet track as short as possible. If you keep the turbo on the side of the exhaust, use a very small crossover tube to go to the carburetor (as small as the turbo exit, you will not need more). Air speed is what you need. Possible some carburetor heating as well, depend on the moisture in your country. The higher the moisture the more chance it will start freezing.
Years ago I've build a Volvo 1800 cc engine with blower and SU for international rally's. They drove up and down Portugal, Greece, Corsica etc... on normal roads, did there rally's, and drove back with and average of 11 liters (please note, this included the full throttle race as well). And car was VERY heavy and not low CX. Carb was set lean at cruise RPM, ignition with canister advance and retard and water/methanol to keep the engine out of pinking during the lean driving conditions.
Not sure which engine i will use, but the Ford Laser engine had a standard 1.5 turbo version which are capable of 250 whp in fwd BH Mazda on standard internals.
but i would like to try sumtin diff for a cam....i have done the wild N/A builds many times which are costly will less power.
1973 mk1 escort
1982 Toyota corolla ke70
1988 mk4 escort
going to use my xflow ... will start off with a 1700 engine i have with big valves etc. only problem is that i don't have a standard xflow cam...the smallest cam i have is an 'A15' 276 duration 11.9lift will that be ok. not looking for crazy boost. Jus a economically engine off boost and around 130 ft lb to get me sideways.
Will a stromberg work as good as the su in suck tru setup?
1973 mk1 escort
1982 Toyota corolla ke70
1988 mk4 escort
Try to find a standard cam or have one regrind. 1,1 Ltr, 1,3 ltr or 1,6 non GT will be best. Any overlap will destroy the quality of a fast road turbo engine.
Stromberg will do the same but so little information about the needles, and where to find them. Best SU is latest HIF6.
What about a supercharger
That and a throttle body and a Megasquirt should be the cheapest way to power
Just seen a Pinto with standard injection and a Merc charger still developing but told it pulls like a train from low revs
Mk2 2 Door Cortina, Injected Turbo 1600xf
http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=375976
If you go supercharging carburetor will even be easier than with the turbo. No direct need for fuel injection if you don't want to. For 1700 cc engine you can use 32/36DGAV, if possible bored chokes. The trick here is again to keep the track short and small. Not always so easy with modern Eaton compressors but can be done.
Must say, I always see more (easier) power with turbo's on such small engines and if correct setup no real difference in low torque. Unless you start measuring under 2000 RPM.
having a hard time finding a good CV Carb, so my plan B for suck tru, would be to use a side draft weber with a small throttle body on the intake manifold to try prevent it suck out the oil.Would this be ok??
with the weber would it not be rich all the time to compensate when the boost comes on? Or is the fueling methods of suck tru different?
1973 mk1 escort
1982 Toyota corolla ke70
1988 mk4 escort
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