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Thread: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by onyd View Post
    No, I think you got it wrong. I believe you take "compression reading" for "compression ratio". We are talking about compression ratio so you have to calculate / measure the total capacity of the combustion chamber (gasket etc.. including) end calculate the compression ratio compared to the total engine displacement. This is very important and that the number we need. It should end at approx 8,5/1.

    There are a lot of good readings about this on internet. Or just buy any silly tuning book. Most of these books are totally useless, copying each other but.... they all have the right calculations in it.

    Okay I'll look into that then cheers

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Also I'm going to get my pistons ceramic coated as advised. Is it worth getting new rings?

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Personally, I don't like new rings on used pistons. Usually the piston groove is no longer straight and the ring has the same shape. Fitting a new ring often means the piston only support the ring on the inner side and ring will brake under pressure. Or the rings AND pistons are OK, or you replace both if to far worn out. In some occasions you can machine the ring groove wider (back in correct shape) and fit slightly wider rings. So you can use older style Pinto rings (wider) in later type pistons but no idea it's also possible for the KENT.

    Coating is a good idea. If budget allows. It will keep the heat out of the piston. I've been using a cheap setup water/methanol injection system to do the same. Just as in these cheap tuning books I've fitted a pressure sensor in the manifold, windscreen washer pump and reservoir, a solenoid to be sure the supply was shut of when not needed. It also keep the combustion chamber cooler and believe me, the engine was very prone for pinking, after fitting this setup, bullet proof against detonation. Only little water/ methanol is needed. Jet was set to spray 3 liter/hour if in constant use. Please deduct the boost pressure from your water pump pressure if you test the capacity of your system. fool the water pressure supply by fitting a "waste" so you lower the line pressure the same as you want the boost pressure. Now you can test your capacity.

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    That's great info again onyd thanks again!!

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by onyd View Post
    Personally, I don't like new rings on used pistons. Usually the piston groove is no longer straight and the ring has the same shape. Fitting a new ring often means the piston only support the ring on the inner side and ring will brake under pressure. Or the rings AND pistons are OK, or you replace both if to far worn out. In some occasions you can machine the ring groove wider (back in correct shape) and fit slightly wider rings. So you can use older style Pinto rings (wider) in later type pistons but no idea it's also possible for the KENT.

    Coating is a good idea. If budget allows. It will keep the heat out of the piston. I've been using a cheap setup water/methanol injection system to do the same. Just as in these cheap tuning books I've fitted a pressure sensor in the manifold, windscreen washer pump and reservoir, a solenoid to be sure the supply was shut of when not needed. It also keep the combustion chamber cooler and believe me, the engine was very prone for pinking, after fitting this setup, bullet proof against detonation. Only little water/ methanol is needed. Jet was set to spray 3 liter/hour if in constant use. Please deduct the boost pressure from your water pump pressure if you test the capacity of your system. fool the water pressure supply by fitting a "waste" so you lower the line pressure the same as you want the boost pressure. Now you can test your capacity.
    Is there any other bits I should look at getting coated or is it not cost effective? Inlet manifold?

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Piston is most important. I don't have an idea what it will cost. If cheap, go for it. But you don't have to build an engine so close against the dead line. In the engines I have in mind, you don't need any of them. With a moderate boost of 7 psi, 8,5/1 and rich jetted at full load nothing is going wrong. I feel, the water/methanol is a better way to keep temp out of the engine as coating. But don't start rushing for something you don't need. If you feel saver, OK, install.

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by onyd View Post
    Piston is most important. I don't have an idea what it will cost. If cheap, go for it. But you don't have to build an engine so close against the dead line. In the engines I have in mind, you don't need any of them. With a moderate boost of 7 psi, 8,5/1 and rich jetted at full load nothing is going wrong. I feel, the water/methanol is a better way to keep temp out of the engine as coating. But don't start rushing for something you don't need. If you feel saver, OK, install.
    Pk thanks again

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Okay so overall here is my idea:
    I'm using a 1660 Xflow block
    Lightened pistons machined to give me 8:1 cr
    Ceramic coat pistons
    Get crank reground and new main bearings
    Fit new big end bearings
    New crank seal
    1300 can
    High pressure oil pump
    Oil cooler
    Chambered head
    Double valve springs
    Lightly ported on inlet
    Duplex timing gear
    T15 turbo running 7-8psi
    Intercooler
    Bike carbs - no injection
    New gaskets and seals throughout.

    Does this sound like a plan?

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Does your 8:1 machining in the pistons take into account the chambered head?

    The t15 is a fairly small turbo, I'd dig up compressor map for it to check out how it will go with 1660cc. My gut feel is that you're going to want at least a t20 or t25.

    Looks good otherwise though
    Mk2 2 Door Cortina, Injected Turbo 1600xf
    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=375976

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    no need for double springs if using a std cam, bike carbs will just prove a pain to fabricate a air tight airbox, and in any case you really dont need the airflow potiential they give, stick with a single car carb. either mod the pistons or use a chambered head, no need for both

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    one thing you should strongly consider is having unleaded exhaust inserts fitted to the head. non unleaded head and turbo heat will kill exhaust seats FAST

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    My 2c only, but I'd stick with the double valve springs. We began to see valve float at around 6k rpm with 8psi and a GT cam. Stock springs are only around 40lbs, so once you subtract around 10lbs for the boost (boost pressure * the inlet valve area) it's like running a 30lbs spring.
    Mk2 2 Door Cortina, Injected Turbo 1600xf
    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=375976

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    heavy duty singles are more than man enough

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Well I've got double springs already so may as well use them. I'll look at having unleaded valve seats putting in then good shout. So run a Renault 5 turbo carb then? Rather than bike carbs/weber 40?

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    And I'll check if I can get enough off the pistons before buying chambered head

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?


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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    snake oil mate, proper inserts are the only way to do it properly

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    snake oil mate, proper inserts are the only way to do it properly

    Okay thanks

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    go t20 to t25 turbo. run an r5 carb and personally after skimming and coating the pistons which are also second hand it's prob gonna set you back nearly 200 quid and they will still be your weak point and your boost limit, for the sake of 200 quid more, buy proper forged pistons and get it done with imo. then your engine can and will take 150bhp all day every day without trouble.
    its not dead till it's buried!


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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Forge pistons are £650 a set that's out of my budget

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    better to save up for a while and do it properly, cheaper in the long run

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Hmm maybe I'll see

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Personaly i would go for forged pistons as you've been advised. It will be cheaper in the long run and safer. Standard xflow pistons break easy in n/a engines. Renault 5 carb on a single choke manifold. All you need to do is drill the mountig holes on carb bigger to fit

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    In my experience cast pistons become worn on the top ring lands very quickly which means that the ring doesn't fit tightly enough in the groove, which in turn allows more gas to get past, and it allows the ring to move in the groove more and more on an ever increasing scale - the bigger the gap, the quicker the wear appears. Think of a moving piston ring like a hammer and the more space it has the more powerful the hammering becomes.

    Some pistons in naturally aspirated engines I have seen are worn within 5000-10000 miles.
    Taking a set of already worn pistons and getting them ceramic coated is going to be a waste of money and similar to making a silk purse out of a sows' ear.

    Buy forged ones - maybe even custom made ones - to suit your application. They will last a lot longer and will do the job properly.

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by looneytune View Post
    Personaly i would go for forged pistons as you've been advised. It will be cheaper in the long run and safer. Standard xflow pistons break easy in n/a engines. Renault 5 carb on a single choke manifold. All you need to do is drill the mountig holes on carb bigger to fit
    Okay thanks mate I'll certainly look into it

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    I'll second honkywhitetrash's post aswell

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by looneytune View Post
    I'll second honkywhitetrash's post aswell
    I'm just trying to build on a bit of a budget like but obviously forged are ideal I'll just have to see

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Building on a budget and putting a hole in a piston is not really good economic sense when you have to start again! I can understand your limited funds but if that's the case take your time and do it right!
    I always think "you buy cheap you buy twice" comes true more often than not.

    Most people who are advising to spend more have probably made the mistakes that you are likely to encounter!
    Last edited by HonkyWhiteTrash; 02-11-2014 at 10:50.

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Quote Originally Posted by HonkyWhiteTrash View Post
    Building on a budget and putting a hole in a piston is not really good economic sense when you have to start again! I can understand your limited funds but if that's the case take your time and do it right!
    I always think "you buy cheap you buy twice" comes true more often than not.

    Most people who are advising to spend more have probably made the mistakes that you are likely to encounter!
    Yeah I know that yeah have to wait a bit then I guess

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    It'd be a good opportunity to read a bit about engines, and turbo theory, and also get your cylinder head sorted with unleaded seats, nice quality valve guides that don't have play between the valves and guides, and a good valve job. Valves that seat/seal properly with nice wide contact areas will help the valves get rid of the excessive heat generated by the turbo.

    I can guarantee that with a little bit of reading your desires and approach to the job will change as you realise what is and isn't possible.
    Last edited by HonkyWhiteTrash; 02-11-2014 at 11:44.

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Forged pistons it is. Just dropped mine and cracked one ...

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Can anyone recommend somewhere to get the unleaded head done?

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    lyons in brynmawr will do it, ask for mike harris . if you pop up they have a shop entrance, go to asda but turn right on the next roundabout and its on the left.

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    I have mikes number I'll call him tomorrow

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    If I was to go fuel injection what's the cheapest way?

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    bike bodies and megasquirt probably cheapest, not easiest tho ..................
    unless you can mod an escort zetec plenum system to fit x/f

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    I've got no idea how good you are with carbs but fitting bike carbs and turbo charge them?!? Yes, sound easy but believe me, a lot more difficult as using a R5 turbo carb. Not saying It can't be done.

    Prices of fuel injection systems did not raise in the last 15 years. No idea which would be cheapest, probably if you can reprogram an OEM ECU but I can't. If you can solder, maybe Megasquirt would be cheapest but best you know something about electronics and computers.

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    Okay I'll ask someone good with electrics (y)

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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    maybe look into something real simple like single point injection like the mk3 fiestas etc had, seen quite a few kits about in the past for not alot.
    its not dead till it's buried!


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    Re: Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

    the thing is, going full mappable injection and turbo just to get 150 bhp from a worn x/f makes no sense to me whichever way i look at it ?

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