Turbo Xflow ... worth it?

[MAX2503]

Gents,

Is turboing a crossflow worth it? Cost? Power? And performance? Any one on here done it? And what did you think?

Many Thanks

[exboyracer]

There have been a few on here in the past, figures around 200bhp were mentioned.

As always in life there are many ways to skin a cat, you have to ask yourself how much power do you want and what is your budget.

[MAX2503]

I've found on the web a draw-thru set-up, although performance information is abit scarce. I'd be happy with something around 150-170bhp, but unsure to what cost.

I like the idea of something different before I look at changing the power plant, but understand I could start walking down a path of throwing money at it with endless troubles, which I don't want.

[Graham]

depends on what your after, IMHO an x/flow isnt best suited to turboing, the piston design soaks up heat like no tomorrow, which is why they die so easily if feed with lean mixtures, plus the fact that there design means they make power by use of revs not torque, which isnt great for getting a turbo to spin up, that said if your going to keep things sensible, smallish turbo lowish boost and aim for around 180 bhp things will be rosey, if your looking for more there are other better starting points engine wise

[Dyno]

I totally agree with Graham. The piston is the combustion chamber and not so suited for turbo charging. But low boost (150 bhp) most be possible. For 180 Bhp I should go for water/methanol injection (nothing special, water screen pump) to keep combustion temps lower. For big power you will need a flat piston in a Kent engine and this can be a problem (very big chamber).

I should try 600 / 700 mbar and see what power it makes. Use intercooler. I feel it will already make much more torque than any other road Kent engine.

Draw through is the most simple turbo carburetor setup. Easy to calibrate but you can face freezing problems and your turbo will need a special seal at the compressor site.

You can go blow through setup using a Renault turbo carburetor.

[racing escort]

I bought a 1600 xflow turbo with R5 carb years ago ... they say it was spinning wheels in every gear ... didn't use it after all (and don't know what pistons are in it)

[Dyno]

I bought a 1600 xflow turbo with R5 carb years ago ... they say it was spinning wheels in every gear ... didn't use it after all (and don't know what pistons are in it)

If the engine is still "ready to go" , let's put it on my dyno and see what kind of power it make? Your from Belgium, can't be that far from my location.

[racing escort]

We can work it out if you like ... you're at least 100 km away

[MAX2503]

What would need to be on my shopping list? Internally and externally... I looked at a weber 40 dcoe running straight into a t2 turbo making its way into the engine via a home made pipe work. What management does the forum suggest?

Any thing else?

Again, I'm looking for around 150bhp just to give her a little spirit, and want to go this route for something different and keep the Kent.

Any help and suggestions would be great,

Many thanks

[John Mcguinness MK2]

Next months classic ford may be of interest to you !!

[Dyno]

If you would like to go draw through you can better use an SU or Mikuni. Beware you need a special seal on the compressor side or it will be eating oil like crazy!!!!

I did once made a special setup and it was working as long as the turbo and intake was very short. An SU carb does not need the throttle plate to control any progression holes. It only control air. So you can put it wherever you want. I placed a valve between the turbo and the intake (like blow through) and the SU carburetor on the intake of the turbo (with no throttle plate). I did it before with an IMPCO gas mixer. Works the same. The SU supplies fuel in the same manner. It works very well but no intercooler possible (but not needed) and you need short intake lines (and small in diameter). No need for a special Seal on the turbo. Freezing can be a problem.

An other easy option is using the renault GT5 turbo carb. Can be fitted on a standard single carb manifold. I'm currently working on a 34 ICH carburetor for turbo charging. 2 will be used on a Flat VW T4 engine. As soon as this carb is ready it can be used as an alternative for the Renault GT5 turbo carb. But it will not stand as much pressure as the Renault carb. Only 600 - 800 mbar.

[BazzaMk2]

Hi,

We're currently doing an x-flow turbo on a 1300 running a low-boost turbo with fuel Injection. It's 90% done, will add some photos tomorrow.

[BazzaMk2]

[Dyno]

Hi BazzaMK2,

Are you using a carburetor?

[BazzaMk2]

Hi Onyd

No we are using a single Jenvey throttle body with a 750cc injector.

[Dyno]

Hi Onyd

No we are using a single Jenvey throttle body with a 750cc injector.

Be sure you can inject 2 times each turnover (every 180°). Otherwise you got charge robbing. I should fit a Renault GT turbo carb to keep it simple. Big enough for you engine.

Look nice, please let me know what kind of power you can get out of it.

[BazzaMk2]

The ECU is already setup by default for 2 squirts. We wanted to run fuel-injection for reliability as this car is used everyday as a daily driver.

[caprimentle]

really nice set up there bazza, love the simplicity of single point injection, i think thats a good choice for a turbo'd engine imo, got to be easier to get the fueling correct rather than using a carburettor, but dont think carbed engines are unreliable, if anything they can more reliable than injection, only problem is it will never drive as nice as if it was fuel injected. little 1300 turbo should go very well, will be good fun

whats the engine spec, standard internals? and what turbo you going to run?

[Dyno]

The ECU is already setup by default for 2 squirts. We wanted to run fuel-injection for reliability as this car is used everyday as a daily driver.

I unterstand most people today are a lot better with PC and electronics as with carbs. But if a carb is setup correct it will give exact the same fun as fuel injection. And can be very reliable. But indeed, where to find a new turbo carb, if you have to start from an old worn out Solex from a GT turbo, yes, not a good starting point.

I'm currently working on 2 real turbo carbs. Not just a carb with big jets, I'm adding an extra fuel system which can detect boost by a diaphragm and a spring. It only add extra fuel under boost. Like the Renault. One is based on the DMTL, the other for smaller boosted engines, based on the very cheap ICH. The DMTL is almost finished.

I feel for a road engine, ignition timing is more difficult building mechanical. Double canisters are rare today. For ignition I prefer a small ECU as well. For cars not used on the road but track days etc. ignition is not a big issue. Set it right full boost, it will be to late in atmo situations but this add extra heat to feed the turbo.

[BazzaMk2]

whats the engine spec, standard internals? and what turbo you going to run?

The engine internals are standard, We knew the engine was good as we have run it for the last few years, so thought we would leave it as it is and see what happens! The turbo is a Garrett T15, should easily provide enough power when the car becomes a daily driver again. The car is my sons mk1 (bytesandbolts) he's the techno on the job and I'm the old school mechanic doing the ''nuts and bolts''.

[caprimentle]

sounds good mate, make sure he gets a video up when done

[looneytune]

Whereabouts in telford are you?

[bytesandbolts]

Hi,

We have a video of the XFlow turbo first start. It is going on the dyno in 2 weeks time. Heres the link to the video http://bytesandbolts.com/?p=309

[exboyracer]

Nice work mate

Good choice on the bip373 drivers by the way, much superior to the tip22s that the standard MS uses.

[monsta_4]

Hi guys new to the forum, in the 80's brospeed made about 250 factory turbo mk2 in south Africa using a rajay turbo and a Webber carb, I had one which I fitted injection to, 1.8 opel sohc intake ports are really close to escort ports and can be welded onto escort flange, was reliable and fun to drive, made around 130hp at 7psi, no intercooler, hope this helps

[bytesandbolts]

Interesting! What litre was the brospeed you was running, 1.6?

[monsta_4]

Yea sorry was 1.6, will see if I can find some pics

[DarthVader]

Here is full road test of the Escort, some one I know owns one - still in immaculate condition.
Far from the HP you mentioned

[monsta_4]

When I got mine it was in pieces so I tweaked it abit, put a gt spec cam in it fitted efi & electronic ignition, used a link plus to manage it and ported the head, on the dyno it ran 130hp at 7psi

[Mk2chez]

Does any body have a shoping list of parts needed to do a conversion ?

[John Mcguinness MK2]

Don't do it!! you're better off turbo'ing a pinto or even a relatively mild pinto (un-turbo'd) will make the same power!!! From experience its just not worth the hassle mate :/

[200sxrb25]

I am doing also a turbo conversion on my Kent 1600cc. But i an going the toyota ITB way.

[Mk2chez]

Are they just prono to blowing up then ? Even on low boost ? Or as you say just hassle to get working?

[caprimentle]

200sxrb25 thats a beaut, looking great, what sort of power are you going for?

[105epwr]

Hi, it's worth it if you check out dec issue of retro ford the Anglia running a turbo xflow is mine it's pretty mild spec but punching out 160 bhp with 167lb ft @ 1bar of boost which will piss on a highly strung revving xflow which use to be in the Anglia..
the above figures are all from Harvey Gibbs dyno which the torque curve is pretty much a straight line up to 6k so for road use its perfect and it drives nice in traffic!!


Cheers

[200sxrb25]

200sxrb25 thats a beaut, looking great, what sort of power are you going for?

Thanks, I build the manifold. The turbo is not big so I am going to boost it 1bar so looking at +- 120KW

[John Mcguinness MK2]

Are they just prono to blowing up then ? Even on low boost ? Or as you say just hassle to get working?

It's just a lot of money and hassle for the end result mate, mine didn't blow up but if definately didn't make the power that was intended. Realistically you need to go straight to fuel injection in my opinion which is easily £1000 by the time you've bought a decent ECU, throttle body, fuel rail etc

Honestly, it is a cool idea, sounds cool, looks good on paper etc but in reality it was a disappointment for me, which is why I'm now in the process of building myself a Pinto

Feel free to PM me anymore questions if you want mate.

[200sxrb25]

It's just a lot of money and hassle for the end result mate, mine didn't blow up but if definately didn't make the power that was intended. Realistically you need to go straight to fuel injection in my opinion which is easily £1000 by the time you've bought a decent ECU, throttle body, fuel rail etc

Honestly, it is a cool idea, sounds cool, looks good on paper etc but in reality it was a disappointment for me, which is why I'm now in the process of building myself a Pinto

Feel free to PM me anymore questions if you want mate.

Yes, you have to go fuel injection to make power.

[Dyno]

Yes, you have to go fuel injection to make power.

Maybe for most it is easier using fuel injection but if you think you are going to have more power on a mild street engine. I guess you will be disappointed. A good R5 GT turbo car is all you need here for cheap fun. I've build my own turbo car but to complex for reselling.

[105epwr]

It's not ALL about bhp is it tho.... What about the extra 30,40 or even 50 lb ft of torque you gain from turbo charging.
Plus easier to drive in traffic with no high lift/big duration cam
More ecomomical than a set of 40/45 dcoe's etc
I haven't got to wait until 4000+ rpm for it to all come together and then scream it to 7800/8 rpm
160hp/160lb ft in a Anglia it just as much fun as my 400hp 2wd cosworth......

That's just my opinion tho