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    Racer Decade Plus User robrs2's Avatar

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    Depends on management used. YB dizzy for cossie setup or a trigger wheel for aftermarket.

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    Whats the best out of the two cossie management would be easier to find

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    pinto turbo management ideas

    I have been wondering wasted spark on an Cosworth L6 ecu using a 36-1 trigger wheel i think you also need an ignition amp and also an amal valve???

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    You cant do 36-1 wheel on an L6. You need the ecu modded to fit the wasted spark board.

    Cost wise its better to go for an aftermarket ecu. After getting all the cossie parts then fine someone to map it, then its more than the cost of an after market one.

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    but all of these parts are bolt on and fairly easy to get hold of aint they after market system will require me taking the car to there shop to get set up and fixed wouldn't it what i really am hoping to do is get the turbo on the engine and running in the car then run very low boost till it gets driven to the garage to be set up proply otherwise i gota rent out a trailer then a bit of agg lol im quite sure what i gota do help me out if i miss anythink please
    1st make exhuast manifold and buy t3 turbo
    2nd cossie 2wd intercooler , uprated injectors
    3rd take engine out of donor sierra send to my mate with cossie pistons , rods,arp rod bolts ,rings ,headgasket (not sure what one) , small and big end bearings (what ones to get), cambelt kit (again can i use std pinto belts and tensioner)and service parts
    4th all appropriate hoses , uprated fuel pump , boost , oil temp and water gauges and will i need an upgraded oil pump or under piston spray bar ? and strip other sierra ready for transplant my saph has 1.6 rear end on so looking into changing that to possibly xr4x4 or use the 2.0 pinto axle 4 a while just to get it moving
    5th get the pinto loom in the other sierra as have dohc loom in people telling me to cut the other one but i think its best to just use the pinto loom
    6th getting it working witch is why i would like it drive-able to get set up
    does that sound ok or have i missed anythink cheers
    also would it be better to remove the fan from the pully and add 2 electric fans cheers

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    Racer Decade Plus User robrs2's Avatar

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    Nothing is simple bolt on and go

    You can run the efi pinto with a turbo on as i did.
    For the cossie setup then you need to make up a crank sensor bracket or fit the cossie sump with it on, fit the dizzy, all the sensors and wiring.
    Aftermarket can be wired to the old loom and then rolling road setup.

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    so after market is the way to go then
    if we ever meet id defo buy you a few pints not in no gay way but youve been nothing but help and iv even repeated myself a few times aswell cheers

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    pinto turbo management ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by robrs2 View Post
    Nothing is simple bolt on and go

    Aftermarket can be wired to the old loom and then rolling road setup.
    Must agree, the L6 was a loose thought,

    wiring megasquirt was pretty simple if you watch what you do so i assume most others are as easy. Getting it running took a bit but mainly down to my inexperience

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    Racer Decade Plus User robrs2's Avatar

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    Megasquire or any other one can be done like this and plug into old loom

    Click image for larger version Name:	eec4cable30_med.jpg Views:	268 Size:	117.3 KB ID:	63150

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    I would like to know when you say single cab do you mean --
    single carb suck (carbon seal) or
    BLOW trough
    if it was suck then yes you would be seeing a fuel vaporization benifit dare I say charge cooling effect not unlike using water injection charge cooling ....???????

    the vaporization benifit is happening at turbo acting just like a intercooler dose but not been further down the line
    PLUS IN NON HIGH BOOST THE MIXTURE WILL BE BETTER AND BURN FASTER

    ADD THE BOOST AND THEN IT COS BACK THE OTHER WAY YOU RUN IN DETONATION ISUSE (with efi you dial in mixture with boost to overcome this )

    Thus low boost carbs can be better
    high boost EFI helps over come mixture temp problems and you can dial in enrichment proportional to boost

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by onyd View Post
    I got this discussion time after time. If people read something that should not be so they try to ignore the result. I've dyno tested well over 600 engine from 1998 until date. So I do think I know what I'm doing. Sometime you test and think you know the result of it (like longer trumpets make more torque) but it not always show the same result in the real world.

    I have little to no explanation why this engine made more power on carbs than on injection. I don't think it had anything to do with the EFI manifold himself. I think it was the extra coolant the carburetor made to the manifold. When I was testing the carb the first time I did not used water heating to the manifold (manifold heating closed with epoxy). The whole manifold was frozen cold and I had 200 Bhp WITH and WITHOUT intercooler. But of course, I had very bad idle (freezing). So I took a standard plenum and connected the water supply to pre-heat the manifold. Again I had 200 Bhp (and no longer freezing at idle). BUT, only when I was using the intercooler. Without intercooler I only had 185 Bhp. Same as the fuel injection system. If I test the fuel injection system without intercooler, power dropped even more.

    It does not matter where the fuel comes from and how it get mixed. I did back to back tests carb and fuel injection many times before and there is no real difference in power (not seldom carb made more power), only at lower RPM carbs start to make problems and when we talk about fuel consumption, carb will no win the game but if setup correct there is little difference.

    When using fuel injection the injectors spray straight into the head and there is little time for the fuel to vaporize and lower the intake charge. Engine designers do this just to PREVENT vaporizing !!! If I would have fitted the fuel injectors at the same length from the cylinders as the distance the fuel had to travel with the carburetor I'm almost sure I could make the same power. But I never did the test until date.

    If you feel I have no idea of how to tune a fuel injection system correct. The engine is still in my workshop, so I invite you to proof what you are willing to explain. I will fit the engine to the dyno, you adjust your injection, we will take it back of and I will fit my carb. The engine is here for a long time. When we had a new make ECU I fitted it first to this engine to see how fast I could setup the new ECU, and at the same time we could compare if the ECU made the same power as any other. I tested cheap ECU's, Megasquirt ECU's etc. Never had any difference in power. Only time you needed to get result did vary.

    Please except an expansive system not always wins over a cheaper system. And yes, if this would be a big power race turbo engine like my Honda's, I would start with fuel injection as well. Because of the many advanced options you can easy bring into live.
    I would like to know when you say single cab do you mean --
    single carb suck (carbon seal) or
    BLOW trough
    if it was suck then yes you would be seeing a fuel vaporization benifit dare I say charge cooling effect not unlike using water injection charge cooling ....???????

    the vaporization benifit is happening at turbo acting just like a intercooler dose but not been further down the line
    PLUS IN NON HIGH BOOST THE MIXTURE WILL BE BETTER AND BURN FASTER

    ADD THE BOOST AND THEN IT COS BACK THE OTHER WAY YOU RUN IN DETONATION ISUSE (with efi you dial in mixture with boost to overcome this )

    Thus low boost carbs can be better
    high boost EFI helps over come mixture temp problems and you can dial in enrichment proportional to boost

  12. #52
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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    The carb was blow trough. Original Ford late Sierra manifold with DMTL carb changed for turbo. The vapor start at the carb exit and it takes more time to vaporize than the fuel injection can which inject direct into the inlet port to prevent vaporizing and common freezing problems. Reason why original carb inlet manifolds always need water heating. Now we are using this "freezing problem" to extra cool our charge. In my situation it was worth 15 Bhp.

    I do not understand when you say EFI systems prevent detonation by dial in a mixture at boost? No matter what boost you are running, if you get the mixture right with the carburetor it will do the same as it will with fuel injection (carb restriction can and will be bigger in high power engines compared to fuel injection but this is probably long after your engines is broken in pieces from boost pressure, at least when using a cab large enough like Holley 500 or 2x Dollorto 45). Of course, you have to modify the carb so it understand boost and compensate with fuel. And yes, for many people dialing in more fuel using an EFI system can be easier as modifying this carburetor. But for low boost it's not extreme difficult. I gave several examples how you can do it.

    I'm not saying carbs are better but I do say for many applications the carb is all you need. Can be made working very easy and cheap and is a still a nice solution for those not so familiar with fuel injection systems. Many older cars still have a carb setup so reusing this systems can save a lot of money and extra work. And even if the EFI was making more power as the carb, it is still a nice solution. I this case, the EFI lost the battle for power. And in low boost applications it will very often.

    PS: when you use suck trough you will have to put a lot of heat into the carb and charge to prevent freezing in the long track. Be sure to use small tubes. So most of the extra charge cooling will go lost. Suck trough can make a lot of power, carb setting may be little easier but setting up the whole thing can be tricky as I found out with several blower kits. The trick is, keep everything small for high air speed and try to make all lines running down to the engine (so no fuel can stay collected in the tubes).
    Last edited by onyd; 26-01-2014 at 17:17.

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    what throttle body are people using on this setup with std eec1v ecu ?

    MY MK1 ESCORT (Now turbo'd)

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    I'm just using the std pinto efi setup

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by The tall one View Post
    I'm just using the std pinto efi setup
    What parts did you use mate cheers

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    Standard ford EECiv off the pinto 2.0 sohc EFi

    Although he is now on a L1 YB Weber setup now remapped for the pinto turbo.

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by robrs2 View Post
    Standard ford EECiv off the pinto 2.0 sohc EFi

    Although he is now on a L1 YB Weber setup now remapped for the pinto turbo.
    im so confused im getting so many different versions of a pinto bulid lol

    atm i have the following parts
    a complete 205 pinto 2.0 engine sierra loom
    ak millar exhuast manifold
    yb engine loom
    yb pistons ,rods ,rings and bearings
    t3 turbo
    yb oil pump
    rs 500 intercooler
    radiator

    items i think i will need are as followed
    yb dizzy
    yh crank sensor and make a bracket
    injectors (witch im not sure on what ones to get)
    a steering rack (quick rack or power steering whats best )
    make an exhuast system
    yb oil under piston spray bar
    yb ecu been told l6 not sure
    someone has reccomended a aftermarket management they said it would be better
    also he said it would cost me about 4 grand to get near 300 hp

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    If your going the Weber YB ecu route you need all the engine sensors from the YB and the throttle body, iscv
    The injectors are low impedance.

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    isnt there someone on this forum who sells all the sensors

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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    Clint at bhp sells every sensor you need, I was only at his workshop the other month and he converted my pinto over from std pinto efi to full cosworth management, the difference is day and night now its on cossie management, dunno why I didnt do it in the first place. I'm from essex too, clint is only over the water, pop in and speak to him.
    its not dead till it's buried!


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    Re: pinto turbo management ideas

    I was only at his workshop the other month and he converted my pinto over from std pinto efi to full cosworth management, the difference is day and night now its on cossie management,
    because what you had worked its often hard for someone to realise how much better an alternative to something that actually works might be.

    i spent years telling one of my friends/customers that his engine management setup was shockingly bad, it was only when i converted one of his other cars he realised it is possible to have an engine which goes like the clappers and has nice manors, when i finally converted his first car he could not believe how much better it was

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