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Thread: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    true...was thinking 0.5mm was minimum ..stick with 10.5:1 and build the 1700...you have all the parts...and if it doesnt perform then look at building the 2.0....

    Mark

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    it depend on how thick your gasket is. 0.75mm clearance is absolute min between piston and head 0.8mm safer
    Yes 10.5 is with the pistons flush with the deck. I'm using a Victor Reinz gasket - would this allow for a 0.5mm skim? as this would give me another 3cc approx. making it 35cc and 11.2 to 1 CR

    Cheers Chris.

    Hang on - no it wouldn't, as I'm calculating the the volume of the gasket as if it's 1mm thick. Aren't they about 1.3mm compressed? This would only bring it up to 10.7 ish.
    Last edited by MemphisTwin; 23-04-2014 at 14:14.

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    Victor reins last time I checked was 55 thou, so yeah about 1.3mm, you can skim the block half a mm and have the pistons out the bore 20 thou giving you a safe 0.8mm piston to head clearance.

    btw great build thread, been watching this with anticipation since the start.
    its not dead till it's buried!


    T.I.T engineering. "Feel the power!"

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    Why don`t you do like I am, Pistons 10 Thou out of the Bore and use a Cometic MLS Gasket at 40 Thou thick compressed. My calculations with that give you 10.63. 1. I still have the RL 31 you can borrow for set up purposes if you want. You need a bit more than a FR cam in my opinion, otherwise all that Head work has been pointless.

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  7. #125
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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    Quote Originally Posted by Forest_rallying View Post
    Why don`t you do like I am, Pistons 10 Thou out of the Bore and use a Cometic MLS Gasket at 40 Thou thick compressed. My calculations with that give you 10.63. 1. I still have the RL 31 you can borrow for set up purposes if you want. You need a bit more than a FR cam in my opinion, otherwise all that Head work has been pointless.
    Cheers for that. I've already got the gasket, so I'll just get the block decked 0.5mm. It's not looking too bad now - I would much rather build the 1700 than a 2.0L. I suppose just looking at the static CR doesn't give the whole picture as I expect cylinder filling to be better than conventionally ported heads, hence higher compression. Bloody hope so anyway!

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    Not too much to report, but everyone likes photos!

    I did a dummy build of the short engine to check the fitted piston height. I knew in theory what it should have been, but it's nice to know that I can still add up. Pistons protrude higher than the deck height by 0.002", so pretty much flush really, and exactly where I thought they'd be. Crankshaft spins effortlessly on the new competition bearings, which is a great relief.





    Plenty of clearance for the Cosworth YB Rods


    So I reckon that I need 0.5mm off the block to gain some compression, yet still leave 0.8mm safety margin between the head and the pistons when using a Vic Reinz gasket compressed to 1.3mm.

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    OK I admit it; this isn't going to work.

    With the valve pockets required for the skimmed downdraught head and any decent competition camshaft, I'm just not going to have any compression. The head would work well on a 2.0l+ bottom end, but on the 1700 it's no good. Back to the drawing board.

    To be honest, this is really pissing me off. I think I'll leave it for a while....
    Last edited by MemphisTwin; 07-05-2014 at 12:34.

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    Gutted for you mate..trying to work an answer...im no expert ....but one option i can see is raised top pistons,and a cam with 2-3mm at tdc...i dont no what sort of cam is needed for hill climbes ...but if you could use a more torqey cam with an earlier inlet closing angle 60-65...it would increase the dynamic compresion ratio...

    mark...

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    also thinking raised top pistons, speak to freddie686868 ( think thats his username) he got a custom set of domed pistons made for not a lot of money.
    its not dead till it's buried!


    T.I.T engineering. "Feel the power!"

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    Quote Originally Posted by caprimentle View Post
    also thinking raised top pistons, speak to freddie686868 ( think thats his username) he got a custom set of domed pistons made for not a lot of money.
    not far off on the spelling :P I had a set of 90.5mm pistons custom made forged slippers in 4/5weeks exelent quality as you would expect from the states all for £630. Drop me a PM if you like

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    here's a link to my forged engine build

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthre...=276802&page=6

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    Have you looked into what overlap the RL 31 Cam has at TDC? There must be one somewhere that `ll do the job!

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    I'm sorry for everyone that's been following this thread, but I just can't get it to work how I wanted.

    With the required piston pockets, I'm looking at a compression ratio of less than 10 to 1. I could prepare another 1600 head with smaller valves and less unshrouding to do (which lowers the CR) but I just can't summon up the enthusiasm at the moment, and I'm very keen to use my downdraught head to see how it goes. So unfortunately the 1700 is shelved for the time being.

    So bollocks to it! It's now going to be a 2.1 litre. In a 500kg car It'll be even more of a flying machine.

    Yesterday I picked up a 2.0l block and crankshaft. The crank had been reground to 0.25mm undersize on mains and big ends, but unfortunately it had suffered some condensation damage and may need a regrind to -0.5mm. I t-cut the journals to clean them up, but there are some stubborn little pits here and there (probably no more than one thou deep). I'll get it to the machinist and see what they think.

    Now the block. It's already at 93mm, and has just been honed. There's no wear or lip in the bores, but it does have a few score marks. They're not deep but you can feel 'em. When I carried the block from the car, I commented that it was the heaviest ruddy Pinto block that I've ever picked up (!) which made me very curious. It's a 205 block with 2222 stamped on the distributor mounting boss, and it has YBB7209 stamped near the water pump. I think it may be an early Cosworth YB block...anyone know? I know sod-all about Pintos!

    I measured the bore walls, and even at 93mm they are still between 5 and 6mm thick. I believe this is plenty to go to 94mm, as they would still be 4.5mm to 5.5mm thick. If that's the case, I could build a 2136 engine and even with deep valve cut-outs in the pistons I would still have over 12 to 1 CR. Much more like it.

    So the question is; would this block be OK at 94mm? Anyone?

    Cheers Chris.

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    A week is a long time in the mind of an amateur engine builder! One thing for sure is that "I'll never hang myself".

    So...I haven't given up on the 1700, but have given up on the 2.1. My heart just isn't in it.

    The problem with the 1700 is that I had two different projects going on hopefully to come together in the same engine. The first was to build a short stroke/large bore 1700 screamer of an engine; the second was to develop an experimental downdraught cylinder head. Well I've now got a very nice bullet proof 1700 bottom end with long YB rods, short 66mm stroke and 90mm forged pistons. I've also got a rather fine downdraught cylinder head with 45.5 inlets and 38mm exhaust valves. Problem is...they don't go together! Even with a 2.5mm head shave, I just don't have enough compression.

    So I'm on the lookout for a 1600GT head with the 42mm inlets as standard. I'll take them out to 44mm and maybe go up to 36mm on the exhausts (which is plenty) and therefore won't need so much unshrouding (and loss of compression) I will then have the chambers welded to increase the CR so I don't have to shave the head. I will probably do a conventional porting job with port-floor epoxy filler. From results I have seen here on this very forum , the head should flow extremely well. Anyone got an early 1600 GT head?


    There's no real rush on this project now as I have ( rather ashamed to say ) also acquired a XFlow engine which I will also be building into a 1700 hillclimb screamer. I know much more about Xflows than Pintos, having built several in the past, and TBH I really like their simplicity and compact dimensions. Of course I do have a few ideas to incorporate into this engine. I will use a standard crankshaft but forged pistons and long rods, a top notch head - I may do my own or I may bite the bullet and get that CNC Alloy jobbie, and I intend using titanium pushrods and valve spring retainers from the USA, which with the the dollar very low against the pound at the moment, is a much less expensive proposition than it sounds. I can get the XFlow up and running quite quickly, so I can get out and do some events asap...and then finish the Pinto at my leisure; I've gone too far to drop it now. Then it would be nice to get them both on a dyno and compare the two.

    Cheers Chris.

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    OK, so I've just sold my last remaining kidney and bought one of these:-
    http://www.cncheads.co.uk/?p=727

    It really is a stunning piece of kit, and there is no way I would dispute those flow figures. Nearly 121 cfm @10"H2O at 0.5" lift from a Xflow! To put that into perspective, I've been reading about the Dave Walker/RetroFord magazine ultimate 2.4l Pinto. Their head (with no added material) flowed 122cfm with inlet valves 4mm bigger.

    Cant wait to get this engine together.

    Anyone want a 1700 Pinto short engine?
    Last edited by MemphisTwin; 12-06-2014 at 16:26.

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    cool mate..good to see you up and running again.....nice head ..will be watching.....

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    Go for the X/flow !

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    Well 5 years has flown by, and I'm beginning to look at this 1700 Pinto once more. It seems such a shame to waste this strong 1700 bottom end after all that work. I've managed to get a 1300 Pinto head and now I'm looking forward to getting out the die grinder!

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Well 5 years has flown by, and I'm beginning to look at this 1700 Pinto once more. It seems such a shame to waste this strong 1700 bottom end after all that work. I've managed to get a 1300 Pinto head and now I'm looking forward to getting out the die grinder!
    excellent, this will be interesting to watch

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    Quote Originally Posted by Memphis View Post
    Well 5 years has flown by, and I'm beginning to look at this 1700 Pinto once more. It seems such a shame to waste this strong 1700 bottom end after all that work. I've managed to get a 1300 Pinto head and now I'm looking forward to getting out the die grinder!
    I have still have n't done anthing yet with the 1600 head I bought off you Memphis. After having it flow bench tested I dummy fitted various cams including a WR40, BF63 and a Lulabelle to see what clearance there would be without pocketing pistons. My conclusion was only the LB would require the pistons modifying. At the moment the head is gathering dust and probably rust.

    Keep us all informed on how you get on as your last build was explained in such fine detail. Are you going High Port once again.

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    The tragic irony of all this is that it took me ages to find a 1300 casting, and now I know where there at least 6 others. I've also found an engine builder who welds Pinto chambers to increase compression, amongst other "demon tweaks". Had I known this 5 years ago, things would have been much different. Oh well..

    I'm going to keep the ports of this head on the smallish side, and make them D shaped. I want to keep the gas speed high. I've also been thinking of using readily available pinto valves, and using lash-caps to get the required length for correct geometry. Would lash caps be a problem for a high revving engine?

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    1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    If you can find them lash caps are ok, but I think outside Sommint racing in the USA you won’t find any. Alternatively just use Essex V6 valves they are longer than 1600 pinto ideal for a 1300 head


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    Good To see you got it going again!

    Ford Taunus Going RS2300 16v with 48s!!!

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    Re: 1700 Pinto.... Back on!

    There's nothing like a Pinto to make people prick their ears up.

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