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Thread: Pipes pinto :)

  1. #81
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    Re: 2337 pinto

    yes i see..move it over 0.5mm and alter the angle to bring the valve end back into its center line....it would work...

    i looked at moving the angle on exhauste and inlet to move them apart...but the spark plug was a problem on the 1600 inlet(with a 46mm valve)

    will watch with interest..cheers mark

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    Re: 2337 pinto

    moving the valves around either towards or away from port spaces is relatively easy, up or down the head i can see being a major headache because the adjuster also has to move

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    Re: 2337 pinto

    I dare say offsetting the exhaust valve away from the inlet by 0.50mm or even 0.75mm will work well, offsetting the valve along the length of the engine rather than playing with valve angles, the reason being is that even 0.75mm is quite a small difference at the rocker pad with the ball stud in the same location, a 0.50mm offset should be easy I think, the only limitation would be increased wear at the side of the end of the valve
    If offsetting the valve the other way changing angles I would rather tilt the valve to reduce the port angle but pay close attention to the valve tip and rocker tip wiping the end of the valve from seated to full lift, keeping the contact pattern towards the center of the valve

    About the port shapes, injection is the best head to use in any case, the shape can be made to flow very well at high lift, the flatter the short turn the higher the high lift flow and the taller the short turn the better the mid lift flow, carb heads have a really poor shape imho, I would not waste time porting one of those unless re designing the inlet ports altogether, then 1600 carb is an option but I still bet injection is the casting to use even for full downdraft, will confirm when I get my hands on a spare inj head to modify
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: 2337 pinto

    offsetting the valve along the length of the engine rather than playing with valve angles, the reason being is that even 0.75mm is quite a small difference at the rocker pad with the ball stud in the same location, a 0.50mm offset should be easy I think, the only limitation would be increased wear at the side of the end of the valve
    my concern with that is unless you move the ball stud also is that the cam will wipe the follower at the wrong angle.

    re heads, yes im well aware of the effects of the different port shapes on flow, on this occasion i want to rework the chamber which isnt possible on a 2.0 without welding the chamber or running lower compression, and am going to concentrate on high lift flow, at lower lifts on opening i think the engines big lungs will offset any flow loss, at lower lifts on closing hopefully an optimized inlet trumpet will pack the mixture in. i could be wrong, but i havnt seen a conventionally tuned injection head pinto better 1980's results using 1600 heads.

    so ive actually been working on the head, for some inexplicable reason when doing pintos i always start with the exhaust ports, no idea why, i dont do it with other engines.

    as we all know the exhaust port has a dogleg, its easy to break through on the inside turn, so best not remove too much there, removing metal from the outside turn also improves flow, your less likely to break through here, but if you carry the porting right out to the manifold face it is easy to break into a head bolt hole.

    ive used the mill to get a head start, the beauty with that is i was able to accurately remove 2mm from either side wall of the exhaust ports and raise the port by 3mm.


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    Re: 2337 pinto

    will be watching and taking notes...great

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    Re: 2337 pinto

    Imho there would be no problem offsetting the exhaust valve 0.50mm along the length of the engine, the rocker pad is sitting almost right under the cam 0.50mm difference right out at the valve tip means little to nothing at the rocker pad surface vs cam, my money says it won't make any difference, moving the rocker stud is not practical

    Honestly working within the casting limits the inj head is superior, mostly due to being able to make the port roof much higher, but I do like the 1.6 chamber, compression wise the 1.6 head is best for sure

    Best of luck with the build, sure it will be a torquey monster with plenty of top end power to match
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: 2337 pinto

    sure it will be a torquey monster with plenty of top end power to match
    hopefully, but whatever i do with it it will seem torquey, its replacing an x/flow

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    Re: 2337 pinto

    there's nothing wrong with a Xflow. On a good day I can beat a pinto


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    Re: 2337 pinto

    Quote Originally Posted by andypipe View Post
    there's nothing wrong with a Xflow. On a good day I can beat a pinto
    I must have mainly good days then

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    Re: 2337 pinto

    Enough x-slow talk this is a big cc pinto that will eat em for breakfast! lol

    We never see any xflows getting anywhere in rallying over here, on a good dry day the best 2.0 pinto engined mk2 escorts can get into the top 10 with WRC and grpN rallycars

    The weight of a pinto being such a disadvantage is a total myth, otherwise they wouldn't get anywhere in tarmac rallying, 1.6 16V engined mk2's have a hard time trying to beat them and 1.6 8V are nowhere to be seen, top 50 at best

    Your racing must be Very different than this
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: 2337 pinto

    Quote Originally Posted by RWD fords rule View Post
    Enough x-slow talk this is a big cc pinto that will eat em for breakfast! lol

    We never see any xflows getting anywhere in rallying over here, on a good dry day the best 2.0 pinto engined mk2 escorts can get into the top 10 with WRC and grpN rallycars

    The weight of a pinto being such a disadvantage is a total myth, otherwise they wouldn't get anywhere in tarmac rallying, 1.6 16V engined mk2's have a hard time trying to beat them and 1.6 8V are nowhere to be seen, top 50 at best

    Your racing must be Very different than this
    Circuit racing is much different to rallying Jason

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    Re: 2337 pinto



    moving to premises has slowed things a bit, quite a bit in fact but the crank has now made it into temporarily into the block



    quick check of endfloat, 5 thou using secondhand thrust washers so nothing wrong there


    block needs some relief, all 4 rods hit it on the exhaust side, and no 4 hits on inlet side to



    breather baffle also needs modifying, i shall remove it, and plug the breather hole, the engine will be dry sumped so its not needed

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    Re: 2337 pinto

    i didnt take a pic, but now have the valves, what i really wanted was a wasted stem 45.5 or 46mm valves it seems 1600 length are hard to come by, so my first thoughts were use 2.0 valves and lash capos, but lash caps seem to be practically impossible to get hold of these days. so ive gone for rec, single cotter group 1 sized, i was pleasantly surprised when they turned up because they do in fact have wasted stems, although the catalog doesnt say so.

    a note for anyone trying to get hold of paul ivy is that sadly his wife has suffered a stroke and he has become carer, so he can be difficult to get hold of at the moment, that said he posted out the valves very quickly, certainly well before my cheque had cleared

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    Re: 2337 pinto

    Any progress Graham

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    Re: 2337 pinto

    a little, i got weighed down in seat engines.

    i have various ideas on the head, but for now im sticking with a fairly conventional porting job, i say fairly, because ive not moved the valves around or used filler etc, it doesnt mean the port shape is conventional though!



    although i have made the guides a little more bullet shape



    as an aside i was talking to dave, and yes he was/is involved in the retro big cc pinto project.
    they have used an injection head flow wise the injection head is a bit better mid flow than the 1600 head, but i wouldnt mid betting at very high valve lift the 1600 will still come out on top, and has the advantage that you can rework the chamber without having to skim the head to death to get the compression back again

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    Re: 2337 pinto

    progress has been slow, needing to make a living on working on normal cars/engines is getting in the way. anyway a couple of pics






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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Really coming together nicely Graham, some lovely work done on the head there and no shortage of goodies in the bottom end. I think its gonna feel like a V8 in the car!

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    Pipes pinto :)

    Can't wait to get it on the circuit


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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    It's all installed now and on the rollers for set up on Monday


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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Excellent. where is it going for its set up?
    its not dead till it's buried!


    T.I.T engineering. "Feel the power!"

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    T+r

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    nice. hopefully i'm local that day. often hear the power runs when I visit my mates at the scrapyard.
    its not dead till it's buried!


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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    its done

    i will make the excuses first, i held back on some of the development, we didnt get a chance to play with the cam timing, and steve didnt want to give a band new engine death just to try and find a few more horse, but the session went really well no fuss no dramas, the engine came out very smooth and sweet, ticked over like a swiss watch, and was equilly happy to rev to 8500

    so heres the plot, or the starting point



    im sure someone will correct me but the most powerfull, totally conventional pinto ive seen was a vulcan 2.4 which made 205bhp so with 208 bhp we aint doing bad, it would be an awesome engine in a rally car!

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Look at the torque spread on it. Peak torque holds on for 1500 rpm. It's gonna be a monster. Once again I can't thank you enough


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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    That thing will pull like a train, what diff ratio are you going to run with it?

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    4.44 with overdrive 7th


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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    hmm.. on the gearing you had on the rollers your be getting 128mph @ 8500, me thinks your be getting into 7th even at brands indy.

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    Pipes pinto :)

    Not a problem. We can change the drop gears in the box for longer circuits


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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    4.1, not too sure of your gearing but id imagine with that torque spread some taller would work well.

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Fairplay a brilliant engine there and revs like hell too!

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    Pipes pinto :)

    Like that. Graham can you show me how you pocket the pistons again
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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Well done

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Nice torque, a mates engine recently made 205bhp and 166lb/ft on pump fuel & 2024cc bolted to a land & sea dyno, peak torque at similar rpm's but max power around 7500rpm and hanging on very well after peak

    Sure this will make the car move like hell out of corners, 175lb/ft will eat xflows for breakfast

    What cam and compression did you decide on?
    "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races" - Enzo Ferrari

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    fantastic. now post up the video that was on facebook so everyone can hear that screaming. it's sounds absolutely brilliant
    its not dead till it's buried!


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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Has anyone seen the comments on the Harris Engines Facebook page re. this engine, pretty amusing, ive got alot of respect for the Harris guys but having muppets slag off other respected engine builders isnt very good advertising for them.

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    cr was 12.25 its on pump fuel and a touch det prone around 3k, which mapped out ok, so i dont think id want to try any more on a dizzy, but otherwise its not overly timing sensative, i think the opened out 1600 chamber is responsible for that, that and the fact its not been skimed to death leaving a very shallow chamber.

    cam is a one off, the exhaust profile is a newman P6 (they have renamed their injection type P5 which is what i used in daves linford engine to P6) inlet profile is more like a P7 would be if they made such a thing.

    steve did to a run with 2 degree timing trim and it made 211bhp, not sure why he went back to the previous timing figure, i think he was worried with mileage on it would get there one its own and was worried about over advancing it.

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    Has anyone seen the comments on the Harris Engines Facebook page re. this engine, pretty amusing, ive got alot of respect for the Harris guys but having muppets slag off other respected engine builders isnt very good advertising for them.


    MK1gaz strikes again!

    seriously though thats pretty normal for different camps to slag each other off.

    i dont care, im happy , The Pipes are happy, Steve Greenald thought it was a cracking engine nuff said

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    MK1gaz strikes again!

    seriously though thats pretty normal for different camps to slag each other off.

    i dont care, im happy , The Pipes are happy, Steve Greenald thought it was a cracking engine nuff said
    Yeah, it never comes from the Harris guys themselves though, usually the straight line racers....................the risks you take posting your business on Facebook i suppose, at the end of the day its on the track or stage where the real arguments are won or lost.

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    MK1gaz strikes again!

    seriously though thats pretty normal for different camps to slag each other off.

    i dont care, im happy , The Pipes are happy, Steve Greenald thought it was a cracking engine nuff said
    Thats who it is lol. Didn't he get banned? If so what for?

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Quote Originally Posted by freddy686868 View Post
    Thats who it is lol. Didn't he get banned? If so what for?
    for turning every single thread no matter what it was about into "chocolate duratecs are shit, zetec dont make any power and pinto is the best engine in the world"

    even those that dont ever complain, were complaining that he was just constantly rubbishing everything which wasnt harris built.. anyway as i said, nuff said
    Last edited by Graham; 15-07-2014 at 12:02.

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