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Thread: Pipes pinto :)

  1. #161
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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    True, it's easily gonna be quicker for sure. just be good to hear from the man that knows his car inside out and been using a crossflow for years to suddenly go to a pinto. there must be a slight difference in handling I would imagine as it's taller and heavier.
    its not dead till it's buried!


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    Pipes pinto :)

    Couldn't really tell in that outing due to the weather. Saying that it didn't want to under steer in the wet


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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    I would like to no when vulcan done this 2.4 pinto? Also my 2.4 has 230bhp with 200 torque what is a ht engine as is john bullions that is 2.3 and was rolling roaded the other week and 225 with 190 torque so i would say that there better than the vulcan 2.4
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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    it wasnt a recent one, but when i say id seen i mean exactly that what id seen, and for me that doesnt include graphs banded around the internet or Y tube videos.

    either way theres more to come, it had done just 40 mins running time when the power runs were done, which is probably why steve didnt leave the timing trim in that actually gave more power, we havnt touched inlet length or cam timing, but its good enough for what Andy needs right now, he's the customer and happy so thats good enough for me.

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    the engine did its first competitive event this weekend at brands, the car/drivers best previous best laptime running a x/flow was a 55.3, Saturday on the same now 4 year old slicks andy put in a best lap of 54.7, thats a staggering improvement in lap time, it doesnt sound much, but it is, true Andy now has a sequential gearbox, but with a totally different engine and having to learn to drive the car again, just to of matched his old best would of been good, Data logging showed his best sector times put together could of given him a 54.3 lap..

    following a rear end bump the First race was a non event . after gary did his bit with the suspension i gave the engine its first look over since i built it, we had the cam cover off so i could put a torque wrench on the head bolts and check the tappets. just 3 of the head bolts went up a bit and the tappets were fine. i did do a full throttle check, which it didnt quite have, but thats exactly how it was mapped, not my choice i might add, in view of the conditions it was decided not to try and get full throttle. so in effect, after a RR, trackday, test day and half a race meeting it didnt need touching

    Andys second race was good, in damp slippery conditions not only was he the fastest of the four mk1 escorts racing, he passed quite a few cars in a straight line that in theory should of been faster. the other noticable thing was all the doom mongers predicted the pinto would turn the car into an understeering monster, no such thing happened im pleased to say
    Last edited by Graham; 02-11-2014 at 22:32.

  7. #166
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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Sounds like a good day, apart from the mishap of the first race!!

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Good stuff

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    :p:p

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    . the other noticable thing was all the doom mongers predicted the pinto would turn the car into an understeering monster, no such thing happened im pleased to say
    historicaly speaking that's Andy LOL

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    Pipes pinto :)

    That's one thing I have never complained about


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    Pipes pinto :)

    And here's the little gem in action
    http://youtu.be/JA_sJCq8uek


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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    fantastic video, amazing driving skills

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    that looks slippery out there, any more torque and your'd struggle putting it down. spun up the rears just through a gear change a couple of times, 6:50 looked hairy when it did lol, that gearbox is bloody lovely
    its not dead till it's buried!


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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    the next step is a diff ratio change, even in the wet and thus reduced speed onto the straight Andy was pulling 8.5k in top gear, the engine should be safe to 9 or more, but there really is no point in revving it that hard, it only serve to wear it out faster

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    What diff ratio is in there now ? What are you going for ?

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    4.4 currently. Andy wants to put a 4.1 in for short circuits like brands and either 3.7 or 3.54 for the longer tracks

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    3.89 poverty spec diff is the way forward from an 1100L or 1300L me thinks..

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Quote Originally Posted by david_white View Post
    3.89 poverty spec diff is the way forward from an 1100L or 1300L me thinks..

    i think your right dave, me thinks a 4.1 would still be a bit too low,

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    So it's an English axle ? Will it cope witstand the stronger pinto ? Anyway 3.9 and 4.1 are easy to find ...

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    yes english, yes its probably a bit marginal on the new engine., but unlike rallying its not subject to the same shock loadings

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    yes english, yes its probably a bit marginal on the new engine., but unlike rallying its not subject to the same shock loadings
    I have a 3.89 for sale ;P

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Quote Originally Posted by racing escort View Post
    So it's an English axle ? Will it cope witstand the stronger pinto ? Anyway 3.9 and 4.1 are easy to find ...
    i can answer that now, it did eat a diff recently, well the lsd, but it was a very old unit that had done years of hard service

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Has anyone seen Connaught Engines recent 2.4 Pinto? 260 HP @ 7500 rpm and 202 lb/ft @ 5750 on twin 50's, some engine, its on their facebook page.

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    Has anyone seen Connaught Engines recent 2.4 Pinto? 260 HP @ 7500 rpm and 202 lb/ft @ 5750 on twin 50's, some engine, its on their facebook page.
    yeah serious numbers, a LOT of research must of gone into that, certainly not a case of picking a cam choosing a spec and hanging an ashley 3 piece off the side.

    we never even managed to get Andys motor back on the dyno to finish the map let alone playing with cam timing or induction lengths. Still its survived a couple of years of testing, trackdays and loads of racing, and has taken a load of scalps along the way. ive got it back now so its time to open it up and see how its faired and continue the development
    Last edited by Graham; 11-12-2016 at 01:21.

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  26. #184
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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Do you have any ideas what you are going to change

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    first step is get the head on the flow bench and see what its actually like, for sure it would benefit from bigger valves but that might not be possible without having a batch of valve specially made, change to a different head or get a bit more radical, i also want to try some offset valve guides.

    the engine is currently using an off the shelf mangoletsi dcoe manifold, but it seems all the best ones are using fabricated dead straight manifolds so again theres something to look at.

    also on the outside i think its time to swap out the ashley manifold

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Yes I have noticed a few pintos from srd that have fabricated inlets but am unsure if this was a so there is more profit in a engine or a performance upgrade looking forward to seeing what the outcome is

    is a raised port head something you are thinking of
    Last edited by Turboman; 11-12-2016 at 02:05.

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    i doubt the manifold upgrade is profit related, ht racing also made them, with cast manifolds cheaply available im sure they made straight ones for a performance reason.

    the current head does have raise port roofs, but not raised floor, i just dont like the idea of using filler, but im sure with it i could make more flow

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    I recently changed my ashley 3 piece for one of SRD's stainless manifolds, ive only rejetted the carbs to get the AFR around the 12.5 mark, engine feels very different to before tho, seems to be stronger around the mid range, will post results once i get it on the dyno in the new year.

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  33. #189
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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    its not a direct comparison but i have raced against SRD pintos/manifolds there was little in it between my 240bhp beemer and the SRD powered escort, the escort had a claimed power close to mine, but was lighter and i had a small advantage at the top end, so ive no doubt that SRD stuff works

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikmex View Post
    I recently changed my ashley 3 piece for one of SRD's stainless manifolds, ive only rejetted the carbs to get the AFR around the 12.5 mark, engine feels very different to before tho, seems to be stronger around the mid range, will post results once i get it on the dyno in the new year.
    been chatting with Mark (srd) on FB he sighted mid range torque gains of between 12 and 17lb ft, compaired to Tony law 4.2,1 and simpson 4.1, having previously said the ashley isnt as good as either. no mention of a top end gain though, but who cares if you can gain more grunt without any losses

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Did you not ask about the fabricated inlets

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Turboman View Post
    Did you not ask about the fabricated inlets
    asked him for a price, jenvey also make a straight inlet too so i have options

    but i want to do some flow testing before i fork out on things which may not make much difference, although from previous testing on bmw engines there should be a power gain from a straight manifold
    Last edited by Graham; 12-12-2016 at 01:49.

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Thanks for info Graham

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Nice one, Mark is a top bloke, he's pretty open a lot talking about his engines where a lot of guys are quite secretive, I'm thinking about trying one of his cylinder heads and cam profiles soon too.

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Turboman View Post
    Did you not ask about the fabricated inlets
    the answer was there is a lot of work and very little profit in making them, so you can only have one if you also buy a head off mark

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  41. #196
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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    right ive done something! i chucked the head on the flowbench, this was always going to be interesting for several reasons,
    1, the head hasnt ever been on a bench,
    2 i couldnt get the valve sizes i wanted so its on smaller valves than i intended, which i think has compromised the port shape. the head itself is non injection 1600 casting
    3 i decided to flow it with throttle bodies fitted then manifold only finally bare head. which should be particularly interesting, this was running 45mm bodies, so they shouldnt really be holding power back as you can get 300 odd bhp from 45's, but a lot of really quick pintos are using 42mm chokes in 48 or 50mm carbs, so maybe bigger would be better?

    i didnt go made with testing, simply took all the followers bar one out the head and turned the cam what what looked by eye to be full lift, i flow tested no2 cylinder, i went for 2 because on the inlet manifold branches 3 and 4 are straighter than 2 and no 1 has greater angles, so i figured if there was any difference no2 would give me a nice average figure.

    point to note i was only looking for a high flow comparison, so i only took one reading at high lift and didnt actually measure the lift, flow figures are as always for me are taking at 28" but converted to 10"



    head with TBs flowed 108cfm, which was reasonably encouraging as many big valve heads dont get much past 100,



    without the bodies flow went upto 111cfm, and bare head was 113cfm, so clearly even if the head remained the same, the induction system would benefit from a bit better breathing, if your starting with over 200bhp than another 4 or 5% is a nice bit of extra power

    curiously cnc heads recon 126cfm from a big valve pinto, although there baseline head flows about 10cfm more than i see from a std head, so on that basis were not a million mile apart
    Last edited by Graham; 12-08-2017 at 13:39.

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  43. #197
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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    so Summary

    head + dcoe mangoletsi high flow manifold+ 45mm TB's = 108cfm

    head + dcoe mangoletsi high flow manifold = 111cfm

    Head = 113cfm

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Turboman View Post
    is a raised port head something you are thinking of
    i did have a quick play with some plastoscene in an inlet port today, any in the roof of the port reduced airflow, but contrary to popular opinion i didnt gain any flow filling in the bottom of the port. ive got an ultra sonic wall thickness tester on the way so i will look to see if i can safely take any more out the roof of the port
    Last edited by Graham; 12-08-2017 at 22:34.

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  46. #199
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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    i ive got an ultra sonic wall thickness tester on the way so i will look to see if i can safely take any more out the roof of the port
    Thats sounds interesting. Steve at Vulcan had my head for a skim about 10-11yrs ago now. I asked him about putting hardened valve seats in the exhausts.. He said he wouldn't do a big valve ported head that he hadn't prepared because you could never be sure it wouldn't break through to the water jacket... He said it would be better to just start with a fresh head.... Mines an old mk3 cortina head done in the early 80's...
    Do you think you could use the wall thickness tester for that Graham?

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    Re: Pipes pinto :)

    Quote Originally Posted by rallyrob View Post
    Thats sounds interesting. Steve at Vulcan had my head for a skim about 10-11yrs ago now. I asked him about putting hardened valve seats in the exhausts.. He said he wouldn't do a big valve ported head that he hadn't prepared because you could never be sure it wouldn't break through to the water jacket... He said it would be better to just start with a fresh head.... Mines an old mk3 cortina head done in the early 80's...
    Do you think you could use the wall thickness tester for that Graham?
    not sure how well it would work on a combustion chamber it needs to sit squarely in contact with whatever your checking, even if it did i think it unlikely you would be able to check right around the seat circumference. that said i think he is probably being a bit over cautious, that said i dont like inserts and proper big valves, theres room if you use no bigger than 44+38, but if you go to 45.5mm inlets with 38 valves i think theres more risk of the insert coming out. i plan on putting bigger valves in Andys head, BUT im going to make some offset guides, to both try and keep the valves apart and give a better short turn

    i do remember a lot of 80's heads had chambers made deeper, which wouldnt be good news for either valve lift or fitting inserts

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