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Thread: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

  1. #161
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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    I'm in awe of the backyard engineering!

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    More assy...new injector seals...washers.nylocks ect....every thing lines up ...so final fix...





    I changed the fixing method for the lower injection rail from bolt to stud and nuts......i also added a slotted washer to act as an extra clamp on the base of the throttle bodys



    i also changed my upper injectors to ford motor sport(the greens were to large cc) and i added an oil petrol resistant impact gasket to keep things secure...



    checking alignment of injectors and bell mouth...






    i need to join the upper injector rail to the lower injector rail with some sort of flexible hose(injector rated)



    A check of the ( 3 ) joins looking down the velocity stacks and butterfly...the white /brown at the end is my work bench...or port into the combustion chamber.....you can see the taper of the whole system....





    i have ordered some hardened steel shafts for the guides...when it arrives i will look at making the guide shafts (fit here....x 6 off)



    new (old) manifold flanges...ready for sizing ect...





    And a shot of my home workspace..converted coal celler 6 x 4....but only 5 1/2 ft tall....mind your head..



    Cheers mark

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Love this
    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/signaturepics/sigpic12022_2.gif

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    I cant wait to see this all up any running in your wide body.

    Have to be the most uniquie build, both engine and body, I have seen in a long, long time.

    Outstanding.

    Shaun

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by escortinadriver View Post
    I cant wait to see this all up any running in your wide body.

    Have to be the most uniquie build, both engine and body, I have seen in a long, long time.

    Outstanding.

    Shaun
    Thanks shaun....Me to.... but i think it will be a couple of years...lol....or more..
    ....Cheers mark

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    shows whats possible if you put your mind to it

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by Turboman View Post
    shows whats possible if you put your mind to it
    Thanks Turboman....
    If you look on my other build

    ' Mk 1 escort (ratspeed) project ' You will see the first trial fitment of the head in its new home.....

    Cheers mark

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Wow, just read beginning to end... Now for part 2 rushing off to read the car build thread

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Little update..been getting the bottom end ready for engineering....

    If you remember i am strokeing the crank to 81mm and with a bore of 93mm this gives me about 2.2...

    but i also wanted to encrease the rod to stroke ratio...not a long rod..but the longest short rod...eg 1.8:1 and over i would call a long rod ratio .and short rod obviously 1.8:1 and under..so with that in mind i ended up with 1.77:1 ratio....(thats 143.5 rod length divided by 81mm stroke)..

    so to achieve that i need to get the pistons made to order...i went with cambridge motorsport who use cp pistons..
    i emailed this quick sketch...which in my opinion is on the limit for 3 rings..and they came back to me saying no prob( but will have 0.8mm ring)



    approx cost delivered with rings ect about 700...


    still waiting for confirmation...

    cheers mark

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Be careful using a rod so long. You can end up with a nice high Bhp reading but almost no torque compared to a rod length of let say 135 mm. I just compare with a Honda S2000, with the original rod setup it's a nice high Bhp number but when you start changing to more normal numbers torque does come in very well and torque is almost not existing with the standard length rod.

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by onyd View Post
    Be careful using a rod so long. You can end up with a nice high Bhp reading but almost no torque compared to a rod length of let say 135 mm. I just compare with a Honda S2000, with the original rod setup it's a nice high Bhp number but when you start changing to more normal numbers torque does come in very well and torque is almost not existing with the standard length rod.
    Hi onyd..yes it is a concern..but i really wanted to try a longer rod with the downdraft set up...i could of gone shorter rod more stroke and more cc say 2.4 ,and it prob would give me more top and low end ...but i really want to try something different...fingers crossed..as they say nothing tried nothing gained..cheers mark

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    you can never beat "more stroke" with any rod length. If you can go "more stroke", my advice is to use the extra cc's, no matter the rod length in this case.

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by onyd View Post
    you can never beat "more stroke" with any rod length. If you can go "more stroke", my advice is to use the extra cc's, no matter the rod length in this case.
    Yes .you are correct of course..but..when i first started the project..the racing regs were max cc 2.2. so i designed around this restriction...of course time has moved on and the rules change its now 2.4cc...but im already commited on the build...cheers mark

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by onyd View Post
    you can never beat "more stroke" with any rod length. If you can go "more stroke", my advice is to use the extra cc's, no matter the rod length in this case.
    ive come to the same conclusion

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    BTW, if you need rods and pistons made to order, try DP in Greece. Almost sure it will be you best option.

    If I was you, I would save for a 2,3 or 2,4 stroker kit. Difference will only be the crankshaft, minus the money you would need to stroke and regrind the standard one to 81 mm. Cranks are no longer expensive.

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by onyd View Post
    BTW, if you need rods and pistons made to order, try DP in Greece. Almost sure it will be you best option.

    If I was you, I would save for a 2,3 or 2,4 stroker kit. Difference will only be the crankshaft, minus the money you would need to stroke and regrind the standard one to 81 mm. Cranks are no longer expensive.
    How much for a stroker crank then?

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    I can't remember but very affordable. I've bought the last one 2 years ago. Since my memory only store 2 days !!??

    Please send him an email, he will replay very soon as usual. Very good guy to deal with.

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by onyd View Post
    I can't remember but very affordable. I've bought the last one 2 years ago. Since my memory only store 2 days !!??

    Please send him an email, he will replay very soon as usual. Very good guy to deal with.
    Hi onyd..ive had a look at there website..they dont seem to do crankshaft...they do all the other parts custom made...ive sent an email..enquirey for crank ...will keep updated...cheers mark

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    He no longer build cranks but does sell cranks from a third person.

  21. #180
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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by onyd View Post
    He no longer build cranks but does sell cranks from a third person.
    I asked for a yb crank but didnt have it.

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    He did sold one to me. For sale now because no longer in use. Fresh regrind and new rods included. As I've told you in the PM

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by madragon199 View Post
    Thanks shaun....Me to.... but i think it will be a couple of years...lol....or more..
    ....Cheers mark
    Hello Mark,
    Is it really going to take 2 years to complete the engine ?
    Have you decided about the camshaft, I might have missed that ?

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by hawk1903 View Post
    Hello Mark,
    Is it really going to take 2 years to complete the engine ?
    Have you decided about the camshaft, I might have missed that ?
    Hi hawk...im building the car its going in ..that will take the time...the engine is almost ready to assemble.just waiting on parts to arrive...im using a piper 657 camshaft ...similar to a gts4...when the engines built i will prob put it in the old cosworth race car for rolling road testing...then transfer back in the escort when the escorts finished...lol

    Cheers mark

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by madragon199 View Post
    Hi hawk...im building the car its going in ..that will take the time...the engine is almost ready to assemble.just waiting on parts to arrive...im using a piper 657 camshaft ...similar to a gts4...when the engines built i will prob put it in the old cosworth race car for rolling road testing...then transfer back in the escort when the escorts finished...lol

    Cheers mark
    Hi Mark,
    Thank you very much for your kind reply.
    I think we all look forward to see the results. I am not familiar with that Piper cam but I know the general characteristics of the GTS4. It was more of a top end performer if I remember correct. However, it will be very interesting to see the result in your build.
    I wish you a very good luck with the engine and also with the Escort build.
    All the best.
    Kerem

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by hawk1903 View Post
    Hi Mark,
    Thank you very much for your kind reply.
    I think we all look forward to see the results. I am not familiar with that Piper cam but I know the general characteristics of the GTS4. It was more of a top end performer if I remember correct. However, it will be very interesting to see the result in your build.
    I wish you a very good luck with the engine and also with the Escort build.


    All the best.
    Kerem
    Thankyou Kerem... ive built it "out side the box"" it will either go really well or really bad....opinions are divided...thats what this is all about...a voyge of discovery...

    I will keep posting cheers mark

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Any updates

  28. #187
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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Updates on the way...need to take some pics...cheers mark

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Can't wait to see the updates and even more the final results! It is such an interesting build.

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Ok..nearly ready for assembly...had my pistons custon made by je..we managed to get 3 rings...by moving the gudgion pin behind the oil ring...and using an oil ring support ring...these are 93mm forged pistons...and i can still ruin them when i do the valve cut outs....(je could have put them in but i wanted to do this part)...(cost was the same as off the shelf pistons)









    The reason for the pistons is im stroking the crank and using long rods.....

    Next got my crank stroked...i didnt go to my maximum...i went with an 80mm stroke...this gives me 2176cc so im still going to call it 2.2 lol...

    with only going to 80mm stroke it still leaves the fillet rad on the top side...which i believe will help with the oil dispersion(escape)...i will also grind my rods a couple of thou under size on the width to aid this aswell....










    after ofset grinding the crank wasnt straight so i had to have the mains ground..(this is normal)..but im ok with this..

    I designed my rods to use opal bearings ..and i started on standard size...so i could still get a couple of regrinds when it all goes wrong,,,,



    i found some double valve springs which mach the spec of the piper cam i had made...and they are piper...





    Ive also gone dry sump...i have all the bits except sump (which ill make) and a pully drive wheel..(i could buy one from burtons) but hopeing one will turn up,,,

    ive been thinking about the exhaust manifold and system....if youve been folowing the ratspeed build..you will realise my exhaust system isnt going to go the normal route.....

    i want the manifold (4-2-1) i want it to come forward and then back in the inner wing and down as a side pipe...

    This means i need a pretty complicated manifold...which of course doesnt exsist....

    But i got lucky with a unit clearance in silverstone..i picked up a shed load of v8 race car manifolds and bends...i have no idea what they are of of...they are stainless 50mm 3 systems are 4-2-1 and one side is 4-1...they look like art...(best £50 ive spent worth more in scrap value)










    still wont fit but i can defo modify to fit....

    cheers mark

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW
    Is the only way to describe what I have just read.
    Last edited by Sweetcorne; 12-12-2017 at 13:43.

  33. #191
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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetcorne View Post
    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW
    Is the only way to describe what I have just read.
    its a shame you wont be able to see any of it....when built...

    cheers mark

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Love this project!! Still can't believe what you can do out of that unit (and your coal cellar!)

    What compression height are the pistons?

    Regarding the crank who did the re-stroking? It looks like a standard Pinto crank? How did you work out how much was safe to change on the big ends - I though cast iron cranks were heat-treated only to 0.030" or so effective depth and going beyond this would ask for trouble?
    Last edited by HonkyWhiteTrash; 12-12-2017 at 19:08.

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Thanks mate...

    I used gosnays in essex...when i looked into it there wasnt a lot of choice for ofset grinding....

    Your correct about not going to far...i spoke to a lot of people regarding stroking. 81mm seemed to be the max that was reliable...from research its more the fact that you lose the fillet rad when you go max and this effects th3e oil flow...and your trouble starts....

    also its critical to have the complete crank checked for problems...and i will have the complete assy balanced...

    To do the complete crank ofset grind and check and re-grind mains was £400...still a lot of money but i dont have £1200 to spend on a bespoke crank...

    my ch is 23.2mm... to achieve this took a lot of work...i had to go with a 20mm gudgeon pin and special oil ring placement...

    cheers mark

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by madragon199 View Post
    Thanks mate...

    I used gosnays in essex...when i looked into it there wasnt a lot of choice for ofset grinding....

    Your correct about not going to far...i spoke to a lot of people regarding stroking. 81mm seemed to be the max that was reliable...from research its more the fact that you lose the fillet rad when you go max and this effects th3e oil flow...and your trouble starts....

    also its critical to have the complete crank checked for problems...and i will have the complete assy balanced...

    To do the complete crank ofset grind and check and re-grind mains was £400...still a lot of money but i dont have £1200 to spend on a bespoke crank...

    my ch is 23.2mm... to achieve this took a lot of work...i had to go with a 20mm gudgeon pin and special oil ring placement...

    cheers mark
    Thanks for the info Mark. Pistons look light as!
    Any need to grind out the crank case to clear the crank and/or rods or are you using narrower profile rods with standard rod bolts (compared with pinto stud and nut type) to give added clearance?

    Any ideas on your rev limit etc?

    Any ideas on when it all be finished, or are you enjoying the build and don't really want to finish it anytime soon?!

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Quote Originally Posted by HonkyWhiteTrash View Post
    Any ideas on your rev limit etc?

    Any ideas on when it all be finished, or are you enjoying the build and don't really want to finish it anytime soon?!
    7000 is no problem on a stroked standard crank, in fact ive known a few revved to 7500.

    you dont need to grind block for clearance at 80mm stroke

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Great job mate, good to see you pull the finger out!

    Keep up the momentum

    Matt

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Any ideas on when it all be finished, or are you enjoying the build and don't really want to finish it anytime soon?![/QUOTE]

    i dont have a deadline for finishing.. your correct i enjoy the building...and a project never finishes.....

    but id like to see if it works ...so im going to put it in the lightning rod ..for rolling road set up...while the escort (rat speed build ) is finished...

    Agree withn graham...id like 7500...

    forged conrods with arp bolts....

    cheers mark

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Cheer matt...

    I never stop...but as your aware..sometimes its 1 step forward 2 steps back...and a 1 hour bracket takes a bloody day ..(as project binky showed on the latest video)...

    Then i built a window display...9ft x 9ft...automated hair cutting machine complete with moving man riding bike ..(from chitty chitty bang bang) then a tv programme wanted to film me making the thing...The making of ..the making of the mechanical display...bloody cameras every where...and all they were interested in was the sparks...(can you cut that again we wernt ready with the camera...can you weld that again we wernt in focus....ect)...i watched the first cut....i decided i dont like how i look or sound...ha ha ha.....but i dont want to be famous...so its all cool...

    back on the car thursday....

    cheers mark

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    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    Hilarious mate

    Good to see you can still talk to the little people in the world....

    Looking forward to the next installment

    Matt

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    Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts

    Re: Down draft b.v. Pinto with variable velocity stacks shed build adventure

    This and the car build thread are what its all about.
    Sadly no new people like this coming through..too busy on computer games and the like.

    Mark,
    You really should write a book. It would be a great read.

    You are a also mentaly disturbed.
    Keep it up.

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