Max Escort cossie power without internal mods ?

[Panza]

I wanna know the Max power one can get out of an Escort cossie (T34) without internal mods.
Internal mods does not include: Headgasket, stud and nut kit or cylinder head porting.
But low-comp pistons and stuff are out. I have asked a few tuners and it ranges from 340hp up to 380hp.

What do you lot think ?

[wes]

You can get 400 BHP quite easily. I used to run 400 BHP in my 4x4 sapphire on a standard bottom end + a standard head with WRC cams, a GRP A headgasket, 4 Greys, 3 bar map sensor, -31 actuator, and a T34 running 35 PSI. Oh, and the ECU needs to be re-mapped. I would also get the water injection system set up. The standard head bolts are up to the job, I torqued them to 100 ft/lbs. Good enough to run 12.6 second quaters! Going low compression at this stage of tune would be a backwards step performance wise. You will have to uprate the oil breather and cooling system though, because the standard kit will fail very quickly!

[Magrah]

How do you uprate the cooling system?

Magrah

[wes]

For a start you dump the standard plastic header tank and replace it with a metal one (Bailey or Spec-R) that has a high pressure cap. Then you fit a swirl pot, this goes in the top hose between the radiator and the head., with the return going to the header tank. And finally you replace the radiaor with an aluminum Pace item. You could change all of your coolant hoses too, but if they are in good condition then there is no point.

[Panza]

Interesting reading Wes.
How much does the WRC cams cost ?
Doesn't the pistons need pocketing for those cams ?
Will I need to do anything else when putting in WRC cams ? Like change bearings or something ?

I have uprated cooling system like you say already. If I do this I'll have a WRC headgasket and ARP stud and nut kit too I think.

Any idea it will give without the WRC cams ?

[wes]

My bad!!!! I forgot about 2 things with the WRC cams, you will need the pistons pocketed AND the spring platforms in the head need to be machined down as they are on the very wild side when it comes to lift!!!! A phone call to Mountune will get you all the info on them, I can't remember exactely how much was needed to be machined from the platforms. You use the standard bearings for the cams.

Alternatively a set of BD10's will be up to the job, no additional work is required for them, but a set of double valve springs would be advisable. There really is no need for the stud kit or WRC headgasket at this stage, I ran 35 PSI boost and had no problems with the GRP A head gasket + standard head bolts, but it's your money my friend. Also, don't forget about vernier pulleys, and you'll need to time the cams in.

You'll see around 400 BHP with that lot, as long as it is mapped properly.

[Panza]

Ok then. That rules out the WRC cams then. Maybe the BD10 cams instead....

But will that lead to 400hp without porting of the head ?

[wes]

Yep. Of course it would be better to get the head ported, the difference between a standard head and a ported one is like the difference between night + day. Then you would be looking at 420 - 430 BHP. Graham Goode Racing can port + polish the head to GRP A spec for £645+ VAT, and they polish, port, and match your inlet manifold to the head.

[Clint]

Without internal mods I wouldnt like to go any further than a 330 HP conversion unless the engine is new ! I have a nice chip for that as well

[Panza]

I'm sure you have Clint

You're saying that you'll have low-comp pistons for anything more than 330hp ? Why ?
I still don't get it. This engine is aready fairly low-comp as it is from standard.
And I want kick from the go not only after 4000rpm.

[Clint]

No I am not saying you need to low comp it I have even seen 400HP cars running 9.2:1 re-read my post

[wes]

Panza, CossieClint is saying (correct me if i'm wrong!) that the bottom end should really be rebuilt (to standard spec) if going to 400BHP. That is a good idea, then you know exactely what condition the bottom end is in. When you run that sort of power, if something isn't 100%, then it will break, and you'll be wishing that you just had it rebuilt in the first place.

[Panza]

ok. So you're basically saying that the engine should be rebuilt/blueprinted to be sure things won't go pear-shaped. I've been thinking about that too.

What's your spec for a 360-400hp engine then Clint ?

[Clint]

Exactly, a used bottom end will really want sorting before 330HP is exceeded.
I personally would race prep the bottom end, flow (not port) the head and use a BD14 inlet cam and Standard Exhaust.
Quite a few mods are made to the block and everything is measured and machined to exactly the correct tolerance.
If you are rebuilding it I would personally use 7.8:1 compression if you are staying with the marelli management.

[Panza]

I've got a quote for a engine rebuild at GGR but that was £5100 + VAT.
A bit too much for my taste. Any other (cheaper) quotes ?
Won't lower compression make the egine produce less torque at lower revs (off boost) ?

[Clint]

Lowering the CR to 7.8 wont make the world of difference and will give you that safety margin.
Can you take the engine out and refit ?

[Panza]

With a little help from a frind that used to work a VW/Audi (He quit because the other mechanics there did lousy work) I think the engine should go in and out nicely.

Are you insinuating that you could do it for "a bit" less that GGR ? If so: How long does it take to take the engine out, rebuild to suitable spec and put it back in ?. If it doesn't take too long it might be easier to take the boat over to england and help out myself (if I am any help that is...).

[Clint]

I could do an engine to the spec we have discussed for around £3k I would need the engine for 3 weeks I would also guarentee my work.

[Panza]

Still a bit steep for my taste. Too bad really. Suppose I'll go for the less-than-350hp route then.

Or maybe just take my chances and hope for the best.....

What exactly does your rebuild include ?

[Clint]

330HP will be ok on your bottom end as long as it sounds ok
Fuel pump
Chip
Actuator
Injectors

[Panza]

I did mean the engine rebuild , not the 330 hp kit. Sorry if I can't express myself in the Queens correct english

[Clint]

Engine rebuild for what power ?

[Panza]

Well.. both for 380 and for max power for T34 standard escort cossie turbo. If I may ?