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Thread: Coil over conversions

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    Mechanic Bob2's Avatar

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    Coil over conversions

    I want to convert a set of capri bilstein front struts to coil-overs and fit short bilstein inserts to go on a mk2 escort. Who supplies the best kit to do this. I've seen that rally design to the kit but is this the best one?

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    World Champion Decade Plus User 2quick4u's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    The Rally design kit is horrible

    Get one From RACE (Stoke On Trent) about £10 more but miles better

    You will also have to drill and tap the hole in the bottom to 10x1 thread (check that on the new inserts first)

    And I think that you need long inserts for Capri struts, but I may be wrong.

    The GP4 type inserts (short and long) are available from various suppliers, shop around for the best price, but they only come from a couple of sources, TAS being one of them.

    As for replacement Capri inserts I can get these in 2 different types through my Bilstein account if anyone is interested.

    HTH

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    Racer Decade Plus User Roger Miller's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Mark,
    How does one determine the positioning of the threaded section.
    This can be a tough job!

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    World Champion Decade Plus User 2quick4u's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Roger,

    I usually position them 2 inches down from the top, although I have fitted them lower before for people who want to "slam" their cars.

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    Racer Decade Plus User Roger Miller's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Yes ride height has a lot to do with it

    What about spring length?
    Suspension droop?
    Positioning of travel in relation to above??

    U will note in this pic, once car comes off jacks, there will be ....less than 2 inches of compression travel, without taking into account of weight of car. generally 5 inches of travel in a strut.

    PS have not heard much good with Raldes stuff!

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    World Champion Decade Plus User 2quick4u's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    I have just found through experience that is about the best position, they have a long range of adjustment using spring length beteen 8" and 10"
    They will fall away from the top seat when the car is jacked up, this can be a problem for some MOT testers here so can use slim "helper springs" just to keep the spring seated when the car is jacked up for testing.

    Any more than approx 2" drop seems to make them handle worse anyway, unless you play around with the camber to get it back.

    The short bodied Bilsteins will give more damping travel when the car is lower.

    Not everything from Raldes is bad, but some of their stuff is really crap, don't know how they are still selling some items as they are such a bad fit, still people don't seem to send stuff back, and just spend time making it fit as it should, seems wierd to me, if I spend money on car parts I expect them to fit and work as they should.

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    Mechanic Bob2's Avatar

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    i want to lower the car by 2-3 inches for track use so do i need long or short inserts, i just presumed short? Have you got any details on RACE?

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    World Champion Decade Plus User 2quick4u's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Longs are fine for -2" but any more and shorts are better so you don't run out of damper travel.

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    Racer Decade Plus User Roger Miller's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Also like to see this in "Goodies"

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    Racer Decade Plus User robrs2's Avatar

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Just done mine used the RalDes ones. Not the best. There are some pics here http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showflat...=5&o=7&fpart=2

    Fitted mine 25mm from the top and used 12" 200lb springs. Sits at the same ride hight as the old springs.

    Also some more info here http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showflat...5&o=21&fpart=1

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    Mechanic stevieel's Avatar

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Anyone got contact details or link etc for RACE stoke on trent as above

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    Racer Decade Plus User Roger Miller's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions


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    Racer Decade Plus User Roger Miller's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions


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    Bodger CortinaCosworth's Avatar

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Hi!
    I see that You call the set from Rally Design horrible. I am going to fit a kit to my Capri studs. What is it that is so horrible about them?
    Are there any better kits,and what makes them better?
    Hope You can help me with this...
    Eirik,Norway!!

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    World Champion Decade Plus User 2quick4u's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Hi!
    I see that You call the set from Rally Design horrible. I am going to fit a kit to my Capri studs. What is it that is so horrible about them?
    Are there any better kits,and what makes them better?
    Hope You can help me with this...
    Eirik,Norway!!
    Hi Eirik,

    The Rallye Design kit has cast spring seats and lock rings, that are a bit poorly made, I have also found with them in the past they have badly cut threads.
    The biggest problem I had was when fitting a set to some GP1 Bilsteins, these struts have the short stumpy "D" shaped locator on the top (Same as GP4 types), they are what would be used with original Ford roller top mounts, my customer got a set from Rally Design, but when I went to assemble the struts with the new springs etc. I found the roughly cast top cup was so thick that were would no longer have been enough of the shoulder sitting through to locate safely in the top mount, Rallye Design insist there is no problem, to me it's bloody dangerous.

    See below pics of Rallye design top seat and then one from R.A.C.E which is machined from Billet, I always reccomend using the ones from R.A.C.E now as they are much better quality and only cost about £5-10 more for a pair.




    The sparkly bits on the second one are just some filings from where I picked it up off a dirty bench for a picture, you can clearly see the difference in thickness though.

    If you are getting them from R.A.C.E anhd they are not for GP1 / GP4 type Bilsteins, but for the normal diameter Capri/ RS etc type, make sure you ask them for the small hole pilot drilled ones, you will have to open the hole out to the right size for your strut inserts then.

    Hope That Helps

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    World Champion Decade Plus User RETRO_AL's Avatar

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    top one looks like its made from tinfoil

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    Mechanic stekcop's Avatar

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    cor i got loads of tin foil at work i might send them some more so they can make them a bit thicker!!

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    Bodger CortinaCosworth's Avatar

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Hi,and thanks for a great answer,with pics and everything!!

    Seems like a good advice to buy the kit from RACE.
    Sorry if I am slow,but RACE,does that firm have a web site?
    Haven´t heard of that company,never seen it on the web either....
    Thanks again!
    Eirik.

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Hi mate,

    No, they don't have a website. As far as I know they don't have e-mail either. But they do have a phone and even a fax!
    Phone : 0044 (0) 1782 523 664
    Phone + Fax : 0044 (0) 1782 518 631
    Their advice is absolutely , and as far as I know, they wouldn't charge you the world for their parts. I bought my 4-link and other bodyshell parts from RACE, and the quality is

    Hope to have helped you

    Bart

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    Bodger CortinaCosworth's Avatar

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Hi Bart!
    Yes it helped me!
    Looks like I have to make a phonecall to RACE one day!!
    Thanks
    Eirik,Norway.

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    I bought some stuff from them and cant recommend them highly enough, good quality and resonable prices to boot

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    Racer Decade Plus User NRspeed's Avatar

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Right I'm gonna wake up this thread!
    My question is:
    Which strut would be the most suitable for coil over conversion, choices are: 2.8i bilsteins, RS MK2, MK1 AVO/RS1600 I put the mk1,2 seperate incase there is a difference. I have all the above and I'm not sure which to use. Struts will be set up for track depending on strut. Gas billies or gas adjustables which is better?, car will be lowered for track.
    Thanks in advance.
    Nat

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    World Champion Decade Plus User 2quick4u's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Nat,

    Any of those are suitable, but as for what is best it depends a bit on budget and exactly how you want the car (height, stiffness etc)
    A short body Bilstein is better for a low car (ones like the GP1 type can be converted) the Capri Bilsteins, or RS/Capri etc struts (fitted with different damper inserts) will run out of damper travel very quickly at lower than -2"

    Personally I have found that some of the single way adjustable dampers seem to give too much bump or rebound damping when you adjust them, can be hard to get them how you want them, as for non adjustable bilstein ones they always just seem to work well, play with the springing and roll bar to get the stiffness level you want,

    GaZ do seem to be the shock of choice though if you have a little more to spend, everyone seems to be very pleased with them.

    When all said and done though it's actually quite hard to make an Escort handle really badly, the difference between one type of damper and another would not translate to a huge amount on a lap.

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    Racer Decade Plus User Roger Miller's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Couple o tips.....
    When adjusting the height, jack the wheel, off the ground or you'll phuck the thread [FTT]

    Clean all the grunge out, above the threaded rings, before turning them, or you'll FTT.

    Wrap the exposed threads on strut, with plastic tape, to stop rocks n stuff hitting it, or You'll FTT.

    Use a propper PAIR of "C" spanners, not a hammer and punch, or you'll FTNuts

    Incidently.....

    A RWD escort will always handle better with the ass end 16 to 20mm higher than the front, else it will underster and FTTyres on the front. [measure at sill panels]

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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User TepiTheFinn's Avatar

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    i made a guide out of nylon (white part), to make sure not to FTT. other reason was to get spring seated properly, because this is slightly bigger 60mm (usually 57mm) I.D. progressive spring.

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    Racer Decade Plus User NRspeed's Avatar

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Nice one Tepi, if you made another one with a just tight ID you could probably have one on the bottom threads as well to cover them. I think you should market them to Turbosport users.
    Right so I'm thinking ideally you need short Bilsteins for low tarmac setup, who does them? or just go with the 2.8i Bilsteins as I wont be lowering beyond a point where chassis mods are needed, I remember seeing raised suspension tops long time ago.
    Where would you go or what catogory would you look under for someone to crack test the struts before I do the coil overs?

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    Way too much free time Decade Plus User Retromotorsport's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    I use Gaz for my Short tarmac spec legs and rears... Give them a call and they will be able to sort you out with the codes etc and then you go to a dealer and pick up a shiny new set and exchange you old legs at the counter...

    Oh and mention your from Turbosport

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    Racer Decade Plus User Roger Miller's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    [QUOTE]
    TepiTheFinn said:
    i made a guide out of nylon (white part), to make sure not to FTT. other reason was to get spring seated properly, because this is slightly bigger 60mm (usually 57mm) I.D. progressive spring.


    Good tip ....Tepi.

    Definately needs something there.
    Most rings have a lip.




    I see the GAZ ones are "a little light" in this department. Perhaps Gary can advise them??


    The ones I have [coil over kit]have a asheetmetal thread protector.

    They slip over the strutt, are alloy and a ring is welded to strut tube.

    Incidently, when welding this treaded bit to strutt DONT fully weld around the tube, 3 or four 20mm long welds are ample to support car.
    The problem is welding all around actually weakens the tube.

    Also its preferential to err on the lower side , when welding on thread etc, as u can then make up spacers to be put between spring and seat to raise car, if needed, from alloy etc.

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    World Champion Decade Plus User 2quick4u's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Incidently, when welding this treaded bit to strutt DONT fully weld around the tube, 3 or four 20mm long welds are ample to support car.
    The problem is welding all around actually weakens the tube.

    I have always welded them all the way round and not had any issues with the tube becoming weak, the original fixed platform was welded all the way round too

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    Racer Decade Plus User Roger Miller's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    2quick4u said:
    Incidently, when welding this treaded bit to strutt DONT fully weld around the tube, 3 or four 20mm long welds are ample to support car.
    The problem is welding all around actually weakens the tube.

    I have always welded them all the way round and not had any issues with the tube becoming weak, the original fixed platform was welded all the way round too
    Duly noted........

    BUT

    the original welds are "cold welds" as such and do not penetrate the tube as u would, ..........eh mark

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    World Champion Decade Plus User 2quick4u's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    I can see where it's coming from, just in practice, and having done more than I can remember, have never had a problem with them.
    Maybe my welds don't penetrate much

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    Way too much free time Decade Plus User Retromotorsport's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    weakest point i've found is the stub axle.... in impacts and general use, never had a tube bend or crack at the weld, had the knuckle/tube crack once though, this was only evident after the body was blasted before welding the collars on it.

    As for thread protection on the Gaz units... there is a collar like everyone elses about 10mm high. If the spring is compressing sideways you have a bigger problem than damaged threads to worry about... the leg/damper is bent.

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    Pit Crew Bart2207's Avatar

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Bearing in mind what Gary mentioned about the weakest point being the fixing of the stubaxle, what's the opinion on using a non-threaded sleeve up to where the threaded sleeve starts. I can imagine that'll add some strength to the stub, and transfers the impacts from the coilover-kit directly to the stub axle????

    I'm about to convert my struts to coilover, so any opinions are much appreciated

    Bart

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    This is the idea:


    (please don't take note of lack in drawing skills )

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    Way too much free time Decade Plus User Retromotorsport's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    I wouldnt bother with the lower sleeve, bit of overkill and its adding weight.

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    Racer Decade Plus User Roger Miller's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions

    Bart2207 said:
    This is the idea:


    Well i recon this is entirely sound.

    I was going to do a very similar thing.
    The tube needs to be as big as the lower casting in diameter to take advantage and the upper part I was going to weld onto my ring thing that spring thread sits on.

    The wedging most do is fine for rallying eg up down forces, BUT
    I have seen quite a few struts bent from braking forces [stopping].

    One further mod I would have liked to do is fill this void [between the tube and strutt][between black and red in your pic] with fine sand to resist bending.

    AND

    for high performace cars [race cars] the void between strutt hydralics [insert] and strutt itself can be filled with thin oil [ATF] to dissapate the heat of shocker , more effectively.

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    Pit Crew Bart2207's Avatar

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    One further mod I would have liked to do is fill this void [between the tube and strutt][between black and red in your pic] with fine sand to resist bending.
    General idea was to make the tube just as close-fit as the threaded sleeve. Can't see the meaning of the sand

  38. #38
    World Champion Decade Plus User 2quick4u's Avatar
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    Re: Coil over conversions



    Well i recon this is entirely sound.

    I was going to do a very similar thing.
    The tube needs to be as big as the lower casting in diameter to take advantage and the upper part I was going to weld onto my ring thing that spring thread sits on.

    The wedging most do is fine for rallying eg up down forces, BUT
    I have seen quite a few struts bent from braking forces [stopping].

    One further mod I would have liked to do is fill this void [between the tube and strutt][between black and red in your pic] with fine sand to resist bending.

    AND

    for high performace cars [race cars] the void between strutt hydralics [insert] and strutt itself can be filled with thin oil [ATF] to dissapate the heat of shocker , more effectively.
    The sleeves I use here are a contact fit on the strut casing, so wouldn't be able to get any sand in there.

    I have been filling the area between "cartridge" type dampers and the strut casing with oil for years, people looked at me like I was nuts, glad someone else agrees.

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    Pit Crew Bart2207's Avatar

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    I have also heard somebody say to put some engine coolant in?????????? Not entirely sure what to think about that

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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User TepiTheFinn's Avatar

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    Re: Coil over conversions

    i always use oil between cartridge and strut tube.
    1/3 of the volume, giving room for hot oil to expand.
    that was teached to me in school, two decades ago.

    Cheers,
    Tepi

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