Sequential Transmission

[escort outlaw]

Has anyone out there got any experience of the Samsonas RWD sequential. Im planning to upgrade in the next while so Im doing a bit of research.

[400motor]

Cant say I have experience with them but they are very popular and common in the European e36 m3 rally cars, might be worth an email to some of the car builders out there, the s50 engines they run are mostly 320bhp+ along with huge torque figures so I would assume they are manufactured to with stand a lot of punishment!

[mk1cosworth]

My mate runs one in his 4wd impreza track car /time attack car and his car is producing over 1000bhp and doesn't have any issues.infact they have told him that they will give him an unlimited warrenty against breakage.....
Obviously they are sure it can take that much power....

[escort outlaw]

Bump any more opinions on the samsonas

[stevieturbo]

Mick at Euro M SPort is a dealer up here, I'm sure he's sold a few.

I seen a Samsonas crate in work ( courier firm ) going to a place in Toome recently too.

A friend recently fitted a sequential to his Subaru and it really is fantastic.

I'd have no concerns about their product at all.

[escort outlaw]

The big Q is are they as durable as a Tractive

[Huxley]

What he said I have just got my Tractive cracking bit of kit and their customer service is second to none

[livewire514]

did you go for the 5 or 6 spd tractive and was there difference in price?

[Huxley]

6 speed one not sure on the difference in price between the two as I was just after the 6 speed

[mjv]

i saw samsonas at the autopsport show, they had a few gearboxes on display and set with paddle shifts and gear sticks. i had a play with the paddle shift one which was for a RWD application and i was impressed by the box, how it works in a car i have no idea.
like the post above i went for a tractive having seen them being used and spoken to guys that have them i think the little extra money is worth the peace of mind.

[stevieturbo]

Their universal RWD at the show is rated at over 1000hp, so should be sturdy, and has changeable drop gears just like Tractive.

I've only used their Subaru sequential and it is bloody superb. Shifts take around 50-60ms

[Dyno]

Anyone else already has experiences with the Samsonas universal 6 speed gearbox?

[stevieturbo]

Anyone else already has experiences with the Samsonas universal 6 speed gearbox?

Nope...but some day, maybe some day I'll afford one.

[Dyno]

Well, I'm at the point I have to buy a strong box. They advertise with 1400 Nm !!! Is it really that strong? My other option is Tractive but I think they talk about 600 Nm.

Don't know the price for the Samsonas yet (have send them an email). But if they can do double the torque, this is the box I want to go for but need references.

[stevieturbo]

I did see the prices listed somewhere, and to be fair the box isnt that expensive. I think it was around 9-10k euros. Not sure how much additional cost there will be to complete the install though
There really arent very many sequential boxes like it that have decent power ratings, it is probably one of the highest.

What engine is it going with ? What application ? Is it just a strong box, or a strong sequential box you need ?

[Dyno]

I received a price, 9500€ incl. the gear shift. That's not bad at all. They quote 1400 Nm which sound very high to me. They use them a lot for drifting in BMW. But Im' not sure drifting is so hard for gearboxes + six cylinder turbo engines don't brake gearboxes as easy as 4 cylinder turbo's.

If they are really this strong and shift easy I'm sure I'm going to buy one. But as many others, I only want to buy once, not time after time again. There currently a Tractive box for sale, 1300€. It's never used. But Tractive does not quote torque figures. The question with torque figures are always, how did they measure?

Engine is S2000 turbo. Currently 2000cc but all bit's and pieces for 2400cc are in already.

[stevieturbo]

A local racer has used his Tractive for many many years behind his Cossie race car. 2wd Escort Cosworth and he does sprints, hillclimbs and rallycross.
His box has been faultless over many years service, but he would probably only have around 5-600hp at most, but he goes very very fast, and always with slicks.
So their product is certainly very robust.

But I also see no reason why Samsonas wouldnt do everything they claim. They had some of their stuff at Autosport at the start of the year and everything looked top quality
I'd also think it far easier for a larger 6cyl engine to hurt a box than a 4 cyl. The smaller engine in a like for like setup will not make the same power/torque a larger engine is capable of

[turbospud]

I received a price, 9500€ incl. the gear shift. That's not bad at all. They quote 1400 Nm which sound very high to me. They use them a lot for drifting in BMW. But Im' not sure drifting is so hard for gearboxes + six cylinder turbo engines don't brake gearboxes as easy as 4 cylinder turbo's.

If they are really this strong and shift easy I'm sure I'm going to buy one. But as many others, I only want to buy once, not time after time again. There currently a Tractive box for sale, 1300€. It's never used. But Tractive does not quote torque figures. The question with torque figures are always, how did they measure?

Engine is S2000 turbo. Currently 2000cc but all bit's and pieces for 2400cc are in already.

tractive do quote torque fiqures it depends on what drop gears are fitted,i have a list somewhere i will try and dig it out.
bit of a bargain if its 1300e,you must mean 13000e
with the pics stevies posted it looks a well made thing

[Dyno]

Yes, indeed, 13000€, otherwise the box was hear already !!!

No, it's not 6 and 8 cylinder who brake boxes, the 4 cylinders do. This is because the power stroke does not overlap and literally knock the tooth from the gear. Sierra Cosworth is a good example. The standard 2WD had T5 box. This was the strongest box they had and was used on many high performance V8 engines. Once fitted to a Sierra Cosworth it could not handle halve the power.

An other example are dyno's. You can hear a 4 cylinder knocking on the brake, chatter from the driveshaft and even brake drive shaft (specially on eddy current brakes). Never trouble with 8 cylinders. I had all tooth knocked out from a T9 box while testing a standard Pinto engine on a large eddy current dyno. The shaft did not had rubber in between and it all went wrong. With a V8 it would not have happened.

[turbospud]

here you go.you aint going to exceed 700 with a 4pot,well you might once


Available drop gear alternatives. (Note! Check for availability, not all ratios are in stock!)


Part No. Tooth count Ratio

M1926M90 drop gear on mainshaft 19
Q1926M90 drop gear on layshaft 26 1.368421053 Note! Max engine torque = 500 Nm

M1925M90 drop gear on mainshaft 19
Q1925M90 drop gear on layshaft 25 1.315789474 Note! Max engine torque = 550 Nm

M1924M90 drop gear on mainshaft 19
Q1924M90 drop gear on layshaft 24 1.263157895 Note! Max engine torque = 600 Nm

M1721M90 drop gear on mainshaft 17
Q1721M90 drop gear on layshaft 21 1.235294118 Note! Max engine torque = 600 Nm

M2024M90 drop gear on mainshaft 20
Q2024M90 drop gear on layshaft 24 1.2 Note! Max engine torque = 600 Nm

M2023M90 drop gear on mainshaft 20
Q2023M90 drop gear on layshaft 23 1.15 Note! Max engine torque = 700 Nm

M2123M90 drop gear on mainshaft 21
Q2123M90 drop gear on layshaft 23 1.095238095 Note! Max engine torque = 700 Nm

M2223M90 drop gear on mainshaft 22
Q2223M90 drop gear on layshaft 23 1.045454545 Note! Max engine torque = 700 Nm

M2222M90 drop gear on mainshaft 22
Q2222M90 drop gear on layshaft 22 1 Note! Max engine torque = 700 Nm

M2322M90 drop gear on mainshaft 23
Q2322M90 drop gear on layshaft 22 0.956521739 Note! Max engine torque = 700 Nm

M2321M90 drop gear on mainshaft 23
Q2321M90 drop gear on layshaft 21 0.913043478 Note! Max engine torque = 700 Nm

M2320M90 drop gear on layshaft 23
Q2320M90 drop gear on mainshaft 20 0.869565217 Note! Max engine torque = 700 Nm

M2420M90 drop gear on layshaft 24
Q2420M90 drop gear on mainshaft 20 0.833333333 Note! Max engine torque = 700 Nm

[stevieturbo]

Yes, indeed, 13000€, otherwise the box was hear already !!!

No, it's not 6 and 8 cylinder who brake boxes, the 4 cylinders do. This is because the power stroke does not overlap and literally knock the tooth from the gear. Sierra Cosworth is a good example. The standard 2WD had T5 box. This was the strongest box they had and was used on many high performance V8 engines. Once fitted to a Sierra Cosworth it could not handle halve the power.

An other example are dyno's. You can hear a 4 cylinder knocking on the brake, chatter from the driveshaft and even brake drive shaft (specially on eddy current brakes). Never trouble with 8 cylinders. I had all tooth knocked out from a T9 box while testing a standard Pinto engine on a large eddy current dyno. The shaft did not had rubber in between and it all went wrong. With a V8 it would not have happened.

The UK T5 is not the same as the US T5 world class as used on many very low powered V8's

Gimme any T5, I bet my V8 will destroy it in seconds lol

[stevieturbo]

It would also be worth baring in mind, that manufacturers torque ratings would...should generally be on the conservatice side, and worst case scenario.

But 700Nm really isnt a lot, unless they're being very conservative. But then as Tractive seem to be very reliable, they probably are.

It would also be worth contacting relevant suppliers to check whether they are available new or not.

I know when we enquired about more Subaru boxes from Samsonas recently, we were told approx 6 month waiting time. They really are flat out !

[Dyno]

There are indeed different T5 boxes. But as far as I know anything of the Cosworth History, Ford wanted a fast car but they had to use as many Ford parts as possible. Pinto block, diesel diff etc.. The gearbox they where using was also in use on some high powered (not so high those days, I believe somewhere round 350 bhp?) V8 cars. Well that's what I've always been reading.

Tractive quote halve the torque of Samsonas. I don't believe the difference can be so big. Question, how do they measure ?

[stevieturbo]

I'd think most of the V8's they used them on would be sub 300hp.

Oddly, in the UK whatever box they used on the Ford V8 fitted to the MG/Rover 75 or whatever it was called, they ran the lower powered engine of around 250-260hp to save the transmission..

I think Samsonas give a warranty on their boxes if they are supplied/built by them ? They do state the torque rating is up to 1400Nm depending on options though, so really the only way is find out is to contact them

It's a different box, different gears/materials/sizes, different setup, so there is every reason for rating to be different.

[Dyno]

I know when we enquired about more Subaru boxes from Samsonas recently, we were told approx 6 month waiting time. They really are flat out ![/QUOTE]

Does not sound very well when you are into racing and need a spare part or an other gearbox !!! Also stuff to think about.

[turbospud]

if its built to the same standard as the tractive you wont need spare parts

[stevieturbo]

Exactly, and it's just a sign of how popular they are of late. There may be some units more readily available I guess depending how popular they are.