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Thread: XE 16 valver

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    World Champion Decade Plus User meXEco's Avatar

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    XE 16 valver

    Picking one up Saturday-£140 complete. So what needs to be changed for fitting into mk1 escort? Bustem arent you doing this to the X??

    Cheers, John.

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    go John!!! flipping heck??

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Hi m8,right good choice
    Manta sump from a 1.8 not a GTE with the wings on sides looks like a hammer head shark sort of thing and the pickup pipe
    been told its best to use the chassis mounting eng mounts
    bellhousing for 5 speed type 9 conv SBD or QED
    clutch drive plate has to have ford spline and vaux outer SBD or QED
    best to run 45`s been told Dellorto`s seem to set up slightly better than Webers on these engines
    ign side of things um obviously cant run the dizzy in normal pos so move it to front with a spec bracket ive just won one on ebay so will get you some pics when it arrives or buy eleccy ign kit from SBD or QED but aint cheap starts at £450 upwards
    few more bits n pieces but thats a start i would check out SBD`s website and QED`s or get on the blower to them tomorrow and get em to send you there cataloges plenty of porn in them i tell thee
    hth James

    oh 1 major thing to consider if you go for it you have to remove the brake servo or whatever you got and go to pedal box jobbie cos carbs sit on that side

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    World Champion Decade Plus User meXEco's Avatar

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Thanks for that mate, knew there was a few things to do. Gonna have to start finding some Vaux bits now. I thought there was some machining to do on the cams to blank off the dizzy drive or something?? Should be able to find a Manta sump-dad reckons theres one in local scrappy-bonus. Chassis mount kit is what i was going to use-how does the dizzy run once moved?? Dont fancy the eleccy ign. too pricey so can i patch the loom in to run standard?? Will be on 45's also so inlet & exhaust manifolds required too. Questions questions he he.

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Dizzy once moved runs off one of the front pulleys ive just bought it all so i will send you some detailed pics so you will get a better idea

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    World Champion Decade Plus User meXEco's Avatar

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Nice one James-appreciate that.

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    send us all a pic i want to see it aswell

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    World Champion Decade Plus User cossymax's Avatar

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Hello mate I have just done this install in my mk2........ you do away with the dizzy and buy the blanking off plate from SBD use a zetec coil pack. ignition wise I have used MBE managment ,you also need the spigot bearing for a type 9.i am using twin 48s and it was dyno`d at 228 so it will be goodfun.if you have any probs pm me and i will give you my phone no goodluck <font color="blue"> </font>

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    World Champion Decade Plus User meXEco's Avatar

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Nice one mate thanks for that. Little worried about the MBE though-trying to do it cheap as possible really and its a long way down the line before it goes anywhere near the car-that needs rebuilding first lol.Do i really need engine management to run carbs?? Will 40's be up to the job??

    Cheers, John.

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    45's and MBE is the way to go or Throttle bodies and the 3D MBE. The 2D management will be fine and if you ask Steve @ Race Engine Calibration (07774773824) to surply it, later on he will PX the mbe for the 3D one when you find the throttle bodies.Steve is part of the Track'n'Road rolling road and engine dyno tuners at Rainham in Essex. I I belive they may have had a hand in cossymax's toy's

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    World Champion Decade Plus User meXEco's Avatar

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Cool mate thanks for the input. Looks like thats the way to go-distributorless ignition then.Seen the kit on SBD-about £500!!! Could i not source a zetec coil pack and just buy the module?? Do i need 45's as a minimum??

    Cheers, John

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    Way too much free time Decade Plus User Retromotorsport's Avatar
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    Re: XE 16 valver

    The coil pack can be sourced by yourself, but please speak to Steve about the MBE kit. The ECU needs to be mapped to your engine and the kit from SBD is a base map to get you rolling, is the SBD kit for ECU,LOOM and Coil Pack for £550 and is it plus VAT

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    World Champion Decade Plus User meXEco's Avatar

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    Re: XE 16 valver




    £508 with vat to add!!

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    Re: XE 16 valver




    £508 with vat to add!!
    aint a cheap conv m8 but fuck it 180 brake just with carbs n shit bring it on

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    World Champion Decade Plus User meXEco's Avatar

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    True Bust true-just had a look at Yukspeed.com-they got MBE ignition pack for £455 including vat??Sounds a bit better.

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    I must admit thats probably the best way to go but im gonna give this conv bracket a go and see what happens

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    World Champion Decade Plus User meXEco's Avatar

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Ok mate-like i said its gonna be a while before the cars ready for an engine anyway so gives me some time to get the relevant bits together.

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    Way too much free time Decade Plus User Retromotorsport's Avatar
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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Trust me. Speak to Steve Greenald @ race engine calibration ... or ask Steve at SBD if he knows of Steve Greenald

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    World Champion Decade Plus User meXEco's Avatar

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Ok mate i'll give him a call-see what the options/prices are. Thanks again mate.

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    World Champion Decade Plus User meXEco's Avatar

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Rang Steve today-very helpful,recommends the mbe with throttle bodies-but 45,s will be nearly as good. On a different note may be getting some 86mm forged pistons-are these suitable as i think these were only in the earlier engines so would they be compatible and a worthwile swap? If he's still got them they are VERY cheap for forged pistons.

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Mr Steve pitcher & Mr Steve Greenald are the ones to speak to.And not forgetting gary at retromotorsport if you want the engine on your lap!!! Hi Gary hope all is well mate.Catch up with you soon <font color="blue"> </font>

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    World Champion Decade Plus User cossymax's Avatar

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    You can run the engine in standard form usins the injection.And the injection loom and managment.The dizzy has to still be relocated.But you cant go much futher with the fueling.The is also a crank sensor to think about and the loom if you want to use carbs <font color="blue"> </font>

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    World Champion Decade Plus User meXEco's Avatar

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Nice one mate. Just found out that the Cav GSi has forged pistons apparently anyway-which is nice.If i can save enough cash its gonna be throttle bodies-hmmmmmmm.

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    World Champion Decade Plus User cossymax's Avatar

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Throttle bodies are the way to go,But you are looking the best part £1000 Im running twin webber 48s i bought complete £350 and steve pitcher is the man for setting up carbs.he has loads of jets ect.And his mapping is the nuts Try motorsport news for the carbs?

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    I know what your saying-its a shed load of cash really-just me in dream mode i think.Unless my numbers come up tonight.

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    Way too much free time Decade Plus User Retromotorsport's Avatar
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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Mr Steve pitcher & Mr Steve Greenald are the ones to speak to.And not forgetting gary at retromotorsport if you want the engine on your lap!!! Hi Gary hope all is well mate.Catch up with you soon <font color="blue"> </font>
    Oh I like that,, The 2 Steves get "mr" I get plain old "gary" And as for "in your lap" Its not that far back, "the gear stick under your hand instead of under the dash" would fit better One other thing Mark,,,, when ya booking in for that 5 link(methinks August is clear, and its after the big track day) see you at the Grasshopper

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    I have the SBD 208 Kit in my westfield, which comprises Jenvey throttle bodies, MBE Ecu + map and a lovely wiring loom.

    I used the QED blanking plate to blank of the Dizzy, which is just a ball bearing (you hammer it into the end of the cam) and an alloy plate.

    Price of 208 kit was £2058, not sure if it's changed. Once I'd costed up a pair of Webbers, inlet manifold and 3D ignition there was only a few hundred quid in it, and you get 208Bhp not 180Bhp on carbs.

    You need the injectors from a Std xe plenum though as well plus Crank angle sendor and a wasted spark (ie dual) coil.

    It isn't cheap, but as with all the stuff I've had from SBD, it is absolutely top notch.

    Gary

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    SBD stuff is top quality
    also i am pretty sure all the early XE lumps came with forged pistons as standard.

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Righty o chaps so i can run the standard injection set-up which wont cost anything other than the rwd conversion bits, sump, bellhousing, mounts etc. Then when funds allow get some throttle bodies on there. Saw the motor tonight-the injection set-up looks very wide-ie would it fit next to inner wing?? Anyone got any pics of xe installs?

    Cheers, John.

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    John,
    Hi the valver engine is a great mod for an escort.
    I have 2 different setups.
    The very first thing to do on any engine is:
    Change the Rod Bolts to ARP Cossie type. this is very important, i've seen 3 engines snap rod bolts when running more than standard power. cost is about £65 talk to SBD and QED or the mad Yorkshire man Yuk (he's great!)
    they all do this stuff and know it all.
    Carbs only need to be 40's unless your going over 205bhp
    as the 45's are always choked well down, this engine flows very well in standard form.
    Exhaust manifold change to any of them,(budget type)this will give 180bhp with carbs.
    you can run front engine dizzy but most is 195bhp from this, and thats from one with a modified advance curve.
    my mate has the dizzy at the rear in his mk2 but had to cut a whole in the firewall bulkhead, (not recomended if car is in good condition)
    you can mount the engine 3 ways. using worldcup engine mounts form R.A.C.E, West wales rally spares etc...
    or chassis mount it, this is better but you need to weld the mounts to the shell and get engine alighned up, then cut and weld up kit to suit. you can also mount the engine at 7 degrees which is how it was designed to run. if you chose the 7 degree option, be sure to get the stuff which matches up to it, also in the upright postion the same rules apply.
    the manta sump is for mounting at 7 degrees, you can get a big wing steel sump off yuk for mounting upright.
    the bellhousings are made in 4 types, type9 gearbox up right and 7deg angle, v6 type9 upright and 7deg tilt, the later is longer to allow the use of the capri 2.8 gearbox, which has far better ratios than the standard sierra type9
    you will need the spigot bearing off yuk (£6)to fit in flywheel ford clutch plate vauxhall pressure plate ford release bearing,
    you can get awy with using a standard exhaust by cutting and welding it around to suit rwd, but it is very resrictive.

    Cams, the XE engine responds to cams very well, but high lift will mean valve sut outs in your pistons or buy a set of forged pistons to raise the compression, these is where the power starts to really appear.
    think thats most of it, i know i've covered some stuff which others have posted, but it is easier for me to go through the whole picture, if i remember anything else i'll add it.

    it all boils down to budget (like most things) but you can do it on the cheap, but change the rod bolts for sure.

    best to budget £1000, but will probably cost more

    if you need more info or pictures let me know, i'd be pleased to help.

    cheers..............ken

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    World Champion Decade Plus User meXEco's Avatar

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Wow thanks for that Ken-the rod bolts is one thing thats going to be done first thing thats for sure-well worth the money. Thought 40's may have been a little small-but you say they will be fine for very mild tunes so thats more money saved there too. Can i get the dizzy modified easily? Or do i have to buy a new/recon one? Think the chassis mount will be the preferred mounting choice as its cheap lol. Does it really matter which way i mount the engine-upright or 7 degrees?? Would the standard cams be ok with carbs?? Also what loom should i need to keep from the Cavalier to run carbs-should i remove all engine bay wiring and keep it if i need to run throttle bodies later on. Any pics of install would be great mate.

    Thanks-John.

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    PS thought only early xe's had forged pistons-someone said this Cav GSi had them also?? Not yet sure what year the car is though.

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    John,
    early Xe's did have forged pistons, all xe pistons are ok for the xe engine. but only need modded if you go for high lift cams.
    these engines love to be at a high compression, and turn over easier than a high compression pinto!

    i take it your going to use as much of standard engine as possible? only wiring i think of, off the top of my head is the plug leads.
    sell all the SFi stuff, air flow meter etc.
    also forgot from before youneed an inlet manifold for the carbs, either 7degree or upright depending on the set up.
    Carbs:
    Dellorto 40's are best choice for a mildly tuned engine up,lots of Torque, even using a dizzyless ignition with an ecu.
    45's will do again dellortos best as these are more torquee than the webbers.
    standard cams, standard pistons, change exhaust manifold, add 40's, front mounted Dizzy will see your engine develope 185 bhp. (easily) but remember the rod bolts

    it doesn't matter which way you mount the engine, 7 degrees or upright, as long as you use the sump, bellhousing, inlet manifold and mounting kit are to match, as it is the chassis mount your doing, you can sort that easy. The Manta Sump is for an engine at 7 degrees and be sure to get the oil pickup pipe with it, you can modify yours but it is time consumeing.
    as with all engine upgrades:
    I'd fit a new cam belt, oil pump (with added shims to uprate the pressure)and water pump.

    the Dizzy you need is a one from either the 1.6 or 1.8 engine (carb not injected), this will fit with the front mounting kit.

    PS I know YUK has one on Ebay at the momment, it needs welding to front of the cam cover (Tig alloy style). i have one already welded which might help in the dimension wise.

    to uprate the dizzy advance curve you have to strip down the dizzy internals and adjust the springs inside, lengthen one, shorten the other. this is trial and error depending on how old the dizzy is. get hold of a couple from the scrappy and try then out, only turn the springs a couple of turns each.

    cheers................Ken


    Ooh just nearly forgot, for throttle bodies and 3d ignition you will need the crank sensor, you will get a new loom with all the 3d ignition kits from who ever makes it up ask for advice as to what inputs are required..
    Best for 3d ignition and throttle bodies is
    MEF (Martin) on the racecar board he is a distributor for DTA excellent for advice and cheap setups. click link
    MEF race car board I'd use the engine see how it suits you and then go for an expensive setup, with cams, 3d ignition, throttle bodies and a whole in the wallet .

    (Also maybe a moderator might want to move this to the tech section on the old school board)

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Blimey i think that covers just about everything mate... Phew. Picking the Cav up tomorrow so we'll see what i can save/sell on or swap for other bits. When you put it like that it sounds pretty straightforward-i'm sure it can be.May also help Bustem here too. Thanks again mate-i'm sure there will be more questions as time progresses.

    Cheers, John

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Yes plenty of usefull info there peps thanks,James

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    perhaps this thread should go into the archive as a reference for putting the enemies engine in an escort
    anyone got more info?

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    World Champion Decade Plus User meXEco's Avatar

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Right got car home at last-next question is-Which is the best way to remove the motor?? Lift from above or drop out the bottom?? Leave box on or split from engine before removal??

    Cheers, John.

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Right got car home at last-next question is-Which is the best way to remove the motor?? Lift from above or drop out the bottom?? Leave box on or split from engine before removal??

    Cheers, John.
    Out The Bottom. I Did My 1600 Cav From The Top Without Taking Out The Box,Just Had To Remove Clutch And Gently Remove It.
    The 16 Valvers I Beleive Has A Thicker Flywheel And You Cant Take Off The Clutch.
    Safest Way Is Out The Bottom.

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    World Champion Decade Plus User meXEco's Avatar

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    Ok mate thanks-may just cut off the front end and bring it out forwards!!

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    Re: XE 16 valver

    I remember my bro did his cav gsi straight up, dont seem to remember him taking the box out with it

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