User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

  1. #1
    Bodger chrisis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    cyprus
    Age
    36
    Posts
    180
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts

    2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    I'm fitting a 2000E 3 rail gearbox (cable type clutch) behind a 1300gt.

    As i found out as i was trying to fit the engine the gearbox is pushing the engine about 2.5cm forward and the engine seats on the cross-member.

    The 2000E bell-housing is the cable type and the length is about 18.5cm

    Do i have the wrong bell-housing or something else is wrong here???

  2. #2
    Racer Decade Plus User

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Up the garage
    Age
    38
    Posts
    2,627
    Thanks
    207
    Thanked 153 Times in 148 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    The bellhousing wouldn't make that much difference providing it is a type 3 bellhousing from a capri or pinto.

    The first thing I would check is the gearbox mounting.

  3. #3
    Bodger chrisis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    cyprus
    Age
    36
    Posts
    180
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    I have been told that i can use a standard gearbox mount. The problem is that the gearbox rod that the clutch bearing and fork goes is approximate 2cm shorter from the bellhousing face thats why i suspect that i need a shorter bellhousing.(around 16.5cm length face to face)

  4. #4
    Pit Crew

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Camberley, Surrey
    Posts
    1,947
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 171 Times in 171 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    Don't you have to use 'RS' mount blocks that move the box back if using the std. body mounts?
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Escort-Mk1...-/230897542249

  5. #5
    I support TS Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    wildo105e's Avatar

    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Manchester
    Age
    48
    Posts
    2,557
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 141 Times in 140 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    have a read of this towards the end.

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=613051

    Do you have the bell housing number this is cast on the end of the starter housing something like 3038. If it is that is a taller bell housing than the standard 105e bell housing which a 2000e would normally be fitted to. I had mine machined down as there is a bit of extra material on the gear box end. Also check the input shaft goes into the spigot bearing enough.

    Is there a reason for using it i assume you want to retain the cable clutch.

    Last edited by wildo105e; 31-01-2015 at 11:56.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to wildo105e For This Useful Post:


  7. #6
    Bodger chrisis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    cyprus
    Age
    36
    Posts
    180
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    Quote Originally Posted by wildo105e View Post
    have a read of this towards the end.

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=613051

    Do you have the bell housing number this is cast on the end of the starter housing something like 3038. If it is that is a taller bell housing than the standard 105e bell housing which a 2000e would normally be fitted to. I had mine machined down as there is a bit of extra material on the gear box end. Also check the input shaft goes into the spigot bearing enough.

    Is there a reason for using it i assume you want to retain the cable clutch.

    wildo105e thanks for all the info.
    i cannot check till monday for the housing number, but has a length of 178mm face to face. My input shaft on my gearbox measure around 165mm so is no way to machine down 13mm my bellhousing to match the gearbox input shaft.

    Also obviously the 13mm difference between the input shaft and the bellhousing face make it impossible for the input shaft to get into the spigot bearing at all.

  8. #7
    I support TS Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    wildo105e's Avatar

    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Manchester
    Age
    48
    Posts
    2,557
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 141 Times in 140 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    hi chrisis you are correct with the measurements think they are the same as what i got. If you can see from my pictures the second one is a 105e bell housing this is i think about 173 mm. i also discovered that the input shaft does not extend level with the bell housing If that is your worry after machining mine was within 1mm Remember the crank sits out about 30 mill from the block face i assume the spigot bearing does not fit so deep in the crank.

    I had my cable bell housing machined to the height of the 105e bell housing (hydraulic) and it seems to sit just right (mathematically it should have).

    I am lucky enough to have both bell housings to compare to. If you need any more measurements let me know but i will be away for about 1 1/2 weeks with work so won't get into the garage
    Last edited by wildo105e; 01-02-2015 at 12:50.

  9. #8
    I support TS Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    wildo105e's Avatar

    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Manchester
    Age
    48
    Posts
    2,557
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 141 Times in 140 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    just had a quick measure as mine is in the car now with no engine. A straight across the bell housing and measuring the input it sits 10mm approx inside the bell housing.

  10. #9
    Bodger chrisis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    cyprus
    Age
    36
    Posts
    180
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    Hi wildo105e. my gearbox is this one http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthre...=2000e+gearbox

    so as you said if i machine down 4-5mm of the cable bellhousing(gearbox face side) and come down to 173mm it should fit then.

    the other think that worries me is that with the current bellhousing, my engine sits on the crossmember and i measure that i need at least 13mm to clear it up and alight the engine mounts too(which 13mm is what i need to have the input shaft and the bellhousing face at the same length)

    mine is a 1100cc 4 speed escort mk1. do i need to open up the gearbox tunnel to make it fit?

    Can you also give me some measurement : gearbox bolt (the one that goes into the gearbox mount) to bellhousing engine face?

  11. #10
    Bodger chrisis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    cyprus
    Age
    36
    Posts
    180
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    i'm posting a few pics if it helps with my problem. It shows how much the bell-housing push the engine forward and how much the engine sits on the cross-member.

    Click image for larger version Name:	escort1.jpg Views:	102 Size:	141.6 KB ID:	73459Click image for larger version Name:	escort2.jpg Views:	101 Size:	132.4 KB ID:	73460Click image for larger version Name:	escort3.jpg Views:	100 Size:	138.6 KB ID:	73456Click image for larger version Name:	escort4.jpg Views:	100 Size:	133.4 KB ID:	73457Click image for larger version Name:	escort5.jpg Views:	99 Size:	119.5 KB ID:	73458
    Last edited by chrisis; 01-02-2015 at 17:25.

  12. #11
    I support TS Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    wildo105e's Avatar

    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Manchester
    Age
    48
    Posts
    2,557
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 141 Times in 140 Posts

    2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    My gearbox is in an anglia which is only a small tunnel the 2000e is a tiny gearbox an escorts will fit a T9 on a standard tunnel so I think you should be fine. I am sure they were fitted to lotus twincams and RS1600. The bellhousing to gear box bolts a 7/16 inc easily available on eBay uk approx 3/4 inch long will do.

  13. #12
    I support TS Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    wildo105e's Avatar

    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Manchester
    Age
    48
    Posts
    2,557
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 141 Times in 140 Posts

    2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    Sorry using my phone so didn't see the pics. Your issue is the reverse of mine as I have a front bowl sump and I have chassis mounted the engine do placed it were I wanted. The bell housing is a larger shape than the escort ones and also has a cast in web on the top which is why you are fouling on the tunnel I think I noticed this when I had them both on the bench you may need to alter the front of the tunnel slightly but the main tunnel should have enough room for the gearbox. 1 step forward 2 back

  14. #13
    I support TS Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    wildo105e's Avatar

    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Manchester
    Age
    48
    Posts
    2,557
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 141 Times in 140 Posts

    2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    Ps the bolts are 7/16 Unc (dam I phone)

  15. #14
    Bodger chrisis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    cyprus
    Age
    36
    Posts
    180
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    Quote Originally Posted by wildo105e View Post
    Ps the bolts are 7/16 Unc (dam I phone)
    Hey mate, sorry for the missunderstanding but want the distance between the bolt that secure the gearbox into the gearbox mount till the front(engine face) of your gearbox

  16. #15
    Bodger chrisis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    cyprus
    Age
    36
    Posts
    180
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    Quote Originally Posted by wildo105e View Post
    Sorry using my phone so didn't see the pics. Your issue is the reverse of mine as I have a front bowl sump and I have chassis mounted the engine do placed it were I wanted. The bell housing is a larger shape than the escort ones and also has a cast in web on the top which is why you are fouling on the tunnel I think I noticed this when I had them both on the bench you may need to alter the front of the tunnel slightly but the main tunnel should have enough room for the gearbox. 1 step forward 2 back
    Seeing how much this bellhousing is pushing the engine forward and how much the engine sump sits on the crossmember do you think that machining my bellhousing by 4mm will clear up the sump from the crossmember?

  17. #16
    Bodger chrisis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    cyprus
    Age
    36
    Posts
    180
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    Quote Originally Posted by wildo105e View Post
    Sorry using my phone so didn't see the pics. Your issue is the reverse of mine as I have a front bowl sump and I have chassis mounted the engine do placed it were I wanted. The bell housing is a larger shape than the escort ones and also has a cast in web on the top which is why you are fouling on the tunnel I think I noticed this when I had them both on the bench you may need to alter the front of the tunnel slightly but the main tunnel should have enough room for the gearbox. 1 step forward 2 back
    Seeing how much this bellhousing is pushing the engine forward and how much the engine sump sits on the crossmember do you think that machining my bellhousing by 4mm will clear up the sump from the crossmember?

  18. #17
    I support TS Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    wildo105e's Avatar

    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Manchester
    Age
    48
    Posts
    2,557
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 141 Times in 140 Posts

    2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    I think you 2 issues here
    1. The bell housing needs machining at the gearbox end to get the right distance for the input shaft.

    2. The shape of the bellhousing is stopping you getting the engine sat in the correct place

    If that makes sense

    This is the only pic I have of the 2 bellhousing side by side the one on the right has a much smaller shape the one on the left is I think what you have

    It us a larger shape which is what is causing you engine location issue

  19. #18
    Bodger chrisis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    cyprus
    Age
    36
    Posts
    180
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    i understand the first one mate, but I'm still confused for the 2nd one.

    The shape of the bell-housing is stopping me getting the engine sat in the correct place do you mean my bell-housing has larger shape and i cannot lift the gearbox high enough to gain clearance of the cross-member?

  20. #19
    I support TS Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    wildo105e's Avatar

    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Manchester
    Age
    48
    Posts
    2,557
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 141 Times in 140 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    I think that is it, i noticed the bell housing you and i use is a more larger shape near the engine end and from the pic above you will see there is also a cast lump on the top of the sump which you may be able to remove on the smaller one on the right note it isnt there.

    I suspect you cannot move the engine back enough to line up with the engine mounts which is also making your sump clash with the cross member. On an escort the sump sits behind the cross member not on it which is why i think you say the engine sits too high. The sump slopes a bit to account for this.
    Last edited by wildo105e; 02-02-2015 at 17:30.

  21. #20
    I support TS Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    wildo105e's Avatar

    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Manchester
    Age
    48
    Posts
    2,557
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 141 Times in 140 Posts

    2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    Sorry just read again the the cast lump is on the bellhousing not the sump hope it didn't confuse the matter

  22. #21
    Bodger chrisis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    cyprus
    Age
    36
    Posts
    180
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    I got the engine in guys

    after a machine my bell-housing 4mm at the gearbox side and 2mm engine side i measure my old gearbox mount to bell-housing (engine side) and i was missing another 8mm.

    because I'm using a mexico driveshaft i have plenty of space to move my gearbox back so i just make the gearbox bolt mount 8mm longer (cut moving towards the engine) to move the gearbox 8mm at the back and that's it.

    you will also need to open up the gearbox tunnel where the bell-housing clutch fork comes out and of course you will have to move the gear lever opening back.

  23. #22
    Bodger

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    ayrshire
    Posts
    76
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    katana answered this earlier sure looks like if you used rs spacer blocks or moved original mounts back problem would be solved i think

  24. #23
    Pit Crew

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Camberley, Surrey
    Posts
    1,947
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 171 Times in 171 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    Quote Originally Posted by escdave View Post
    katana answered this earlier sure looks like if you used rs spacer blocks or moved original mounts back problem would be solved i think
    A phrase about Horses and Water springs to mind!

  25. #24
    Bodger

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    ayrshire
    Posts
    76
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    then follows gearstick hole cut and turned to put stick in right place then prop may hit back of box its a learning curve

  26. #25
    Bodger chrisis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    cyprus
    Age
    36
    Posts
    180
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    the bell-housing needed machining at the gearbox end to get the right distance for the input shaft

    i agree if i have used 'RS' mount blocks as katana suggested earlier i was going to solve the 1st part of the problem

  27. #26
    I support TS Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    wildo105e's Avatar

    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Manchester
    Age
    48
    Posts
    2,557
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 141 Times in 140 Posts

    2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    Good result nothing is straight forward when you are trying a none standard route.

  28. #27
    Tyre Kicker

    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Guildford
    Age
    47
    Posts
    1
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: 2000E 3 rail gearbox fitting problem

    If you are trying to fit a 2000E box into a std Escort MK1 shell, just do what FORD AVO dept did back in 1969 to Twincams and BDAs and Mexicos. Cut out the gearlever hole and reweld it a bit further back as required. Cut away and tidy up the tunnel reinforcing brace at its front edge as the gearlever hole now exposes it. Possibly have a little bash with a big hammer in the bellhousing area of gearbox tunnel. Fit engine mounts that are longer on drivers side and short on passenger side so engine ends up a bit skewed and pointing towards nearside of car. 105E hydraulic bellhousing,(starter motor driver side) or a 3038E cable clutch bellhousing from like a MK1 Capri 1600 x/flow.( starter motor passenger side). You can also put a 10mm spacer between the gearbox mount and the car body to drop rear of g/box a bit, but not absolutely nec.

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts