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Thread: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

  1. #41
    World Champion Decade Plus User 2quick4u's Avatar
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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    The Rs2000 sump is not ideal as it only has a wing on one side, it therefore suffers surge problems on fast left handers as the oil all moves away from the pickup into the big space on the offside of the sump.

    A standard cossie sump is not bad as it is fairly square around a central pick up pipe so doesn't have the same surge problems of the Escort one, to surge away from the pick up pipe the oil actually has to climb the sump walls, can happen but needs a lot more cornering force than with RS2000 sump.

    There is a bit can be done to improve the Rs sump though too, a baffle plate against the opening to the wing helps, but the biggest issue and one that always seems to be overlooked is to make sure the oil pipe is near the bottom of the sump, I do this on every pinto and get it to around8mm, but having checked and measured them before I have found they are often 20-25mm away, that's a long way above the oil when it starts to move

    They can also be omproved by adding a 1" band of alloy (by welding in) round them to increase the capacity.

    Incidentally, Smiffy's Mk1 runs a RS2000 sump and has never had a problem, and at around 10,000 miles a year is probably one of the hardest used Cossied Escorts around, dunno how he gets away with it, maybe the oil returns from the head quicker on a YB than a pinto?

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    While we are on the problem of oil surge....do the standard escort xflow sumps suffer much from oil surge problems as id like to get them sorted if they do whilst the car and engine are still in bits

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    Racer Decade Plus User Willid1's Avatar

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    A standard x flow sump has no baffling in it at all IIRC, but the big wing sump on the MK1 Mexico's etc has baffles and a "tap door" to stop the oil flowing forward under braking.

    I would have thought a standard sump would be death to an engine in any kind of track use.

    I ran a standard 1600 sport sump with a lightly tuned x flow (road use only) and never had any problems, but if you are going for lots of power how much do you want to protect your investment??

    HTH

    David

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Cheers david here is a pic of my sump....looks like it has light baffling in it to me? As for the mex sump i dont fancy putting it in as it means new column and rack to clear the wing doesnt it??? I think my bros old mk1 (fast road/rally spec engine) was on a standard sump and seemed fine with the abuse he gave it...but he never tracked it only street driving. I would quite like to do some drag strip and trackdays so dont really want my full race xflow going pop

    Pic of sump:

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    Racer Decade Plus User Willid1's Avatar

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    As for the mex sump i dont fancy putting it in as it means new column and rack to clear the wing doesnt it???
    Don't think you would have any problems fitting a big wing sump to a MK 2, certainly not with the steering gear.

    Thinking about it now it must have been the 1300 sump that had no baffles, could be wrong. I certainly remember having to remove the well thats got the razor blade in it in your picture as the rod didn't have enough clearance. Had to relieve the sump along the edges for the same reason.

    I think you must have a proper 1600 sump there.

    HTH

    David

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Yea it is a proper 1600 sump as its what came with the engine. Do you think it needs an extra baffle plate in the bowl like gary has made for this zetec sump taken from the zetec sump post (shown below) as it doesnt apppear too hard to fabricate and i have access to a welder? Or will whats there be fine as i dont think i have heard of xflows having surge problems on trackdays and stuff?

    Pic of zetec sump:


    As for power it should hopefully be about 140bhp+ but we will see. Plus i also have an idea about turboing my spare engine so i will need a good supply of oil for that one

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    World Champion Decade Plus User markb's Avatar

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    go for the bowl IMO dave.. although if your bro didn't bust it then that's got to be good for track driving?

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Im thinking its got to be a good idea for peace of mind? And yes anything that doesnt die from my bro has to be good even cosworth gets killed by him

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    paul bailey at bailey motorsport does these mods on cossy sumps he made a blinding job on mine

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Hello!
    I own a Cortina mk1 and I am going to fit a Cosworth engine i it. Are going to fit Escort mk2 steering rack.
    Have bought a World Cup X member,RS 2000 (world cup) engine mounts.

    I have looked in different topics here at Turbosport. Have found a lot about the Cosworth sump mods.
    My engine is a 4x4 Cosworth,witch i am fitting a 2wd cosworthsump.
    I tried to fit it with the enginemounts "the wrong way" and I just have to take a little of the X-member. If I turned the mounts around,I have to cut out some of the sump.

    One of the problems with turning the mounts around ("the wrong way") is the steering rack. Looks like there is going to be a problem with the steeringcoupling. Do I need a Grp 4 streering coupling?

    Another problem is the steering rack mounting brackets aswell. There is not enough space for them,I think...

    If I modyfy the sump,will the standard Escort mk2 steeringcoupling go clear of the enginemounts??

    Anybody that can guide me trought this?

    Greetings from Eirik,Norway!

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Anybody got one of these HT modded sumps for sale, i can'twait for them to do me one, need it within a week, will pay top money. cheers

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    am using rs 2000 sump with a modid pick up pipe

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    ive got 1,but its on my car ,try clint he maybe able to help m8mind you he's a busy man(doing my depleted loom)

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    still waiting for mine:tumblewee

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Maybe a long wait if Rays not back there yet,hes the only one who does the tig welding there.

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    might have to buy anther sump for the time being,should have my car back end of the month and i need to crack on

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Paul bailey done my mates one years ago,so that maybe another option

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Just a quickie for my first post, but I have fitted the YB into my MK1 with the WCXM no problems, but I did make my own engine mounts!

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    hallo hallo please send pictures of the home made mounts.

    iceman.

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    I certainly don't want to take away anything from HT, but if anyone needs this sort of modification done in a hurry (I know HT are busy), give me a shout, and I could do it one evening for you...

    Simon

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    @rs1600

    Below is a photo of the WCXM mounts I made for my YB into MK1. The engine sits as far back in the bay as possible without fouling the original bulkhead etc, so no cutting of the gutters or bulkhead is needed.

    Simon



    My appologies for the image size, and the clarity, rust and clean metal never really set themselves apart

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    Question Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Quote Originally Posted by YODI View Post
    Right, if your fitting a cossie lump into a mk1 or mk2 escort you need to have serious work done to the sump to clear the cross member. The work includes cutting back the belly pan shortening it so it clears the x-member, then having the 'wings' put on the side to compensate for the lost oil by cutting it short.

    You also need to extend the oil pick up pipe so its stuill central in the belly of the sump.

    This one was done by HT Racing in dartford - 01474 872 888 at a cost of £280.
    You need to supply your own sump and pick up pipe, allow up to two weeks for them to do it as they are very busy.

    Seems expensive, and it is but the work is 2nd to none.

    Yodi









    Is this Tig welded or is it Mig welded? The welds look so big and i kinda thought Tig welds where small and qute

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    Mechanic runoutofrigos's Avatar

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    It definitely looks TIG welded from here.

    The weld can be adjusted with most TIG welders using the AC Balance control. This will give a deep narrow weld, or a wide shallow weld, or anywhere in between.

    It is also possible that they "V groove" the joints prior to welding to give a much stronger joint needing more filler material to fill it, hence the wider weld.

    The quality of the work is superb, the cosmetics are fine, but you could always grind the welds off if you prefer

    Simon

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Yup, definitely TIG'd. How you want the bead to look is easily controlled by frequency, power, length of arc, size of filler wire, speed of movement, technique etc, and any combination of these things. As long as it's perfectly clean cast ali (the main sump for example) welds beautifully I find...some people seem to hate it.

    Just remember when welding sumps that it's always advisable (essential in the case of alloy) to keep it bolted to the block to prevent warping...


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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    I am running a green top 4x4 motor converted to 2wd. It is using the original 4x4 pick up etc but just in a 2wd sump now.

    As you may well know that I use my car purely for track days now. It is running a standard sump and I have never had any oil surge problems to date. Admittedly I do not wish for any either and so will be going down the road of big winging my sump.

    One thing no one has mentioned as yet is the use of gates in the sump. Baffles are ok but if staying wet then the ultimate modification is to add gates in all four directions? This is something I will be doing to my sump when I eventually get to modify it.

    What are your thought on gating the sump?
    "I love you more than gummy bears"

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Hi Can Anyone Tell Me How Much Is Taken Off The Sump To Make It Fit Beside The X Member Cheers

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    if anyone needs a big wing sump made i would contact

    AG MOTORSPORT HE DID MINE RECENTLY!!

    I WONT SAYHOW MUCH IT WAS BUT FAR CHEAPER THAN ANYONE ELSE AND WAS PERFECT!!!!

    HE EVEN GAVE ME A MEASURING DEVICE TO CUT AND FIT MY PICK UP PIPE!!!! YOU WONT GET BETTER!!!

    ITSNOW ON MY CAR BUT IM HAPPY TO TAKE PICS TO SHOWHOW GOOD IT IS (TIG) OBVIOUSLY

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    so dose anyone know if the oil pick up on a 4x4 differnt to a 2wd as it al sems to fit but iv been told the 4x4 pick up is to close to the bottem of sump so wont suck up as well???is this true?we are uesing a 200block with a 2wd sump and a 4x4 pick up???any suggestions pls?????????????????????????????????

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    i had to cut and shut mine using 4x4 pump/pipe and 2wd sump ,to get it right you need pistons out to see whats going on
    nick


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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    surley theres another way then not to take pistons out seems crazy to do this???has anyone got a 2wb bar can they tell me the hight differance?or angle for that matter????

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    hi guys, i am going to put wings onto my 2wd sump as it has been cut to clear crossmember,do you completly remove the inside of where the wing is welded or just put aa few holes in?how many?where?and what size?
    cheers lads

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    Racer Decade Plus User angliaant's Avatar

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    i know this is a really very old thread
    but do HT still do these? is it still the next best thing to dry sumping??
    Wanted: Second Hand Tremec TKO 500, 600 or T56 Gearbox... Cash Waiting
    Any small welding, fabrication, engineering, paint or mechanical works undertaken, please PM for details.

    It would seem my computer skills are not good enough !!

    thanks Guys !


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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Cant believe I got an email telling me there was a reply to this post LOL

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Ant, what you want is one of these.



    £75

    Doug.

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    looks quite possible that thats what i will be needing eventually yes mate
    has it been tested? how many engines are using it??
    thanks
    Ant
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    It would seem my computer skills are not good enough !!

    thanks Guys !


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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Ant i made one of those sump baffles for our track car. Suffers no oil surges at all after fitting

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Going back to the sumps, Pro alloy can mod a 2wd sump for around £100, thats big winged with the cut out for the steering rack Much cheaper and done in a week or two

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Quote Originally Posted by SFS View Post
    Ant, what you want is one of these.



    £75

    Doug.
    Are these still avalible???

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Found this on ebay looks like the same sorta thing???

    Do they just bolt intoa standard sump???

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    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Just got this reply


    Hi it fits into a standard 2wd sump and bolts in original bolt holes

    No welding needed !
    Thanks karl rs200

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