User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 102

Thread: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

  1. #1
    Part of the furniture Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Administrator
    Turbosport Moderator
    RS Yod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    North London
    Age
    44
    Posts
    10,210
    Thanks
    62
    Thanked 148 Times in 111 Posts

    Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Right, if your fitting a cossie lump into a mk1 or mk2 escort you need to have serious work done to the sump to clear the cross member. The work includes cutting back the belly pan shortening it so it clears the x-member, then having the 'wings' put on the side to compensate for the lost oil by cutting it short.

    You also need to extend the oil pick up pipe so its stuill central in the belly of the sump.

    This one was done by HT Racing in dartford - 01474 872 888 at a cost of £280.
    You need to supply your own sump and pick up pipe, allow up to two weeks for them to do it as they are very busy.

    Seems expensive, and it is but the work is 2nd to none.

    Yodi







    Last edited by Clint; 25-07-2008 at 10:42.

  2. #2
    Part of the furniture Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Administrator
    Turbosport Moderator
    RS Yod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    North London
    Age
    44
    Posts
    10,210
    Thanks
    62
    Thanked 148 Times in 111 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY HT...

    Can this go into archives to help others??

  3. #3
    World Champion Decade Plus User RChambers's Avatar

    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Aldershot
    Age
    41
    Posts
    4,538
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    I love how good quality welding looks. My old mountain bike had welds like that. A work of art

  4. #4
    Mechanic Bob2's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    542
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Yodi just a quick note to say i had to file the crossmember to stop mine rubbing, bit of an arse when its in place so prob worth checking when you first put the engine in!!

    Patrick

  5. #5
    Part of the furniture Decade Plus User Kevmk2's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    London
    Age
    48
    Posts
    10,228
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 20 Times in 20 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Right now get that bolted on and il see you up the ace in the car
    Seriously though Ray down there is a top welder and does a top job,just look at some of his fabrication work on the cars they build down there.
    P.S You may have to shave or cut the lip of the back of the crossmember to allow for tilt on the engine

  6. #6
    Part of the furniture Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Administrator
    Turbosport Moderator
    RS Yod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    North London
    Age
    44
    Posts
    10,210
    Thanks
    62
    Thanked 148 Times in 111 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Kev I'll see you down there soon

    The car was already cossie'd before I bought it and has the same x-member fitted so its already been shaved

  7. #7
    World Champion Decade Plus User 2quick4u's Avatar
    My Race Car
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    The Sunshine State, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    3,717
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    My standard cossie sump clears my World Cup X-member with no cutting of the pan.

    Nice work by HT though

  8. #8
    Part of the furniture Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Administrator
    Turbosport Moderator
    RS Yod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    North London
    Age
    44
    Posts
    10,210
    Thanks
    62
    Thanked 148 Times in 111 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Last edited by Clint; 25-07-2008 at 10:44.

  9. #9
    Racer Decade Plus User Mr_Hoarder's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Essex
    Age
    55
    Posts
    1,563
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    You will have fun changing the starter motor when it's all bolted into the car.

    The big wing and the world cup engine mount completely box the starter in.

    This is from experience btw.

  10. #10
    Part of the furniture Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Administrator
    Turbosport Moderator
    RS Yod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    North London
    Age
    44
    Posts
    10,210
    Thanks
    62
    Thanked 148 Times in 111 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    You will have fun changing the starter motor when it's all bolted into the car.

    The big wing and the world cup engine mount completely box the starter in.

    This is from experience btw.


    Also did you get my pm??
    Last edited by Clint; 25-07-2008 at 10:44.

  11. #11
    Racer Decade Plus User Mr_Hoarder's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Essex
    Age
    55
    Posts
    1,563
    Thanks
    4
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    I did.

  12. #12
    Pit Crew Decade Plus User Shaun's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    LIVERPOOL
    Age
    54
    Posts
    1,389
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    mines still got the standard 2wd sump aswell

  13. #13
    Racer Decade Plus User dazzle's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Now over the pond North side
    Age
    51
    Posts
    3,540
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 85 Times in 78 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    So, do you need to get this mod done Or can you get away with a WCXM and a standard sump Dont see as it's worth the 280 if you can get away with it

  14. #14
    Part of the furniture Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Administrator
    Turbosport Moderator
    RS Yod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    North London
    Age
    44
    Posts
    10,210
    Thanks
    62
    Thanked 148 Times in 111 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Apparently you dont but when I asked you did need it done and now Ive spent £280 you dont

  15. #15
    Part of the furniture Decade Plus User Kevmk2's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    London
    Age
    48
    Posts
    10,228
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 20 Times in 20 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    You will have fun changing the starter motor when it's all bolted into the car.

    The big wing and the world cup engine mount completely box the starter in.

    This is from experience btw.
    Oh yeah i had that problem too,in the end i left the bellhousing bolts out and wedged the gearbox back to get the starter in
    And its definately worth having done to avoid oil surge when going around the track

  16. #16
    TURBOSPORT SPONSOR Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Sponsor


    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Dorking
    Posts
    1,445
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    If you have a big money engine,is it worth the risk of oil surge?

  17. #17
    World Champion Decade Plus User 2quick4u's Avatar
    My Race Car
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    The Sunshine State, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    3,717
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    If you have a big money engine,is it worth the risk of oil surge?
    a dry sump setup is best then

    The HT sump is nice and an increase in capacity is useful, but a standard cossie sump is quite good as it is square around the oil pickup pipe which is in the centre, so the oil doesn't surge away as easily as some designs

  18. #18
    Mechanic Slymanrs2's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    South London
    Age
    44
    Posts
    626
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Same here! I put the engine in for a test, first time in the mounts where round the wrong way? and it wouldnt fit, so turned them round and sump clears WCXM and rack, and put a plumb line from the heater bubble to the front and all the plug holes in the head all lined up! wahoo
    may have to trim the lip back on the XM like Kev says

  19. #19
    Part of the furniture Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Administrator
    Turbosport Moderator
    RS Yod's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    North London
    Age
    44
    Posts
    10,210
    Thanks
    62
    Thanked 148 Times in 111 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    My sumps for sale at a loss to myself if anyone now wants it

  20. #20
    Management Team Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    Turbosport Moderator
    Clint's Avatar
    My Race Car
    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    My 3rd Project
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Sevenoaks, Kent, United Kingdom
    Age
    54
    Posts
    925,744
    Thanks
    59
    Thanked 279 Times in 179 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Here is a pic of a WCXM with the rear cut back about as far as you want to go without loosing any strengh.



    The issue is with the mounts, if you lucky the WCXM mounts will sit the engine about right but some mounts are not jiged very well so engine position is a bit of a lottery if they fit or you can modify them or make your own then you will be able to use the std cossie sump.

    The cossie sump does need baffling for best results though, and big wings are always worth considering if you have the budget.

  21. #21
    Spanner Monkey Scot's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    93
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Why not just have a wing on the exhaust side if you're worried about losing oil capacity and going to have probs with the starter?

  22. #22
    Management Team Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    Turbosport Moderator
    Clint's Avatar
    My Race Car
    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    My 3rd Project
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Sevenoaks, Kent, United Kingdom
    Age
    54
    Posts
    925,744
    Thanks
    59
    Thanked 279 Times in 179 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Post Copied from another Post with some more info:

    If you trim the x-member up:



    and move the engine back a bit:



    You will find there is plenty of room for a std sump:



    But that dosnt mean you can skimp on spending money at HT's



    If you want to get yours like this then speak to Gary @ RetroMotorsport.

  23. #23
    World Champion Decade Plus User 2quick4u's Avatar
    My Race Car
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    The Sunshine State, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    3,717
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Clint,

    the problem isn't usually scrimping that puts people off of the HT sump, it's waiting 6 months to get them to do it

    It's a very nice job but I built my whole car in less time than it took Andy to get his sump done

    BTW,
    For standard cossie sump, if you fit a WCXM from RACE, and nip a wee bit out the back as above pic, it will fit anyway, some of them it fits better if you switch the mounts left to right too, I did that with mine moving the engine across to the nearside slightly, weight distribution was better too

  24. #24
    World Champion Decade Plus User RETRO_AL's Avatar

    My 1st Project
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    skipton
    Age
    48
    Posts
    4,845
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 35 Times in 34 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    whats the advantage of having one of them sumps you can get more oil in? wots wrong with a standard one or is it some thing to do with surge as well?

  25. #25
    World Champion Decade Plus User 2quick4u's Avatar
    My Race Car
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    The Sunshine State, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    3,717
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Yes more capacity and it is also baffled to minimise surge, extra oil capacity is always a good thing.

    I don't believe there is any real problem with standard cossie sump though for most road/ trackday applications, it is a nice square bowl wich helps keep surge down anyway.

    Personally if I was to upgrade the sump on mine I would probably opt for a dry sump system, they aren't really that dear now.

  26. #26
    Management Team Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    Turbosport Moderator
    Clint's Avatar
    My Race Car
    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    My 3rd Project
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Sevenoaks, Kent, United Kingdom
    Age
    54
    Posts
    925,744
    Thanks
    59
    Thanked 279 Times in 179 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    The standard sump is very good, but does have trouble on fast cars, baffling them works very well, the big wings give them nearly double the capacity and allows you to run the oil level a little lower.

    Mark you have to be looking at a £1200 to dry sump a cossie engine properly hows that not dear ?

  27. #27
    World Champion Decade Plus User 2quick4u's Avatar
    My Race Car
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    The Sunshine State, Australia
    Age
    57
    Posts
    3,717
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Mark you have to be looking at a £1200 to dry sump a cossie engine properly hows that not dear ?
    I have contacts

    Besides even at £1200, when you have 10 times that (or 20 times in many cases) invested in the car it's not really that bad,
    when a T4 turbo will cost nearly that, the engine may have cost 4 or 5 times that amount built, I don't think it's a huge price to pay for a proper oil system.

    seems people will happily pay huge sums for many other items but alway baulk at cost of lubrication.

    All IMHO of course

  28. #28
    Management Team Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    Turbosport Moderator
    Clint's Avatar
    My Race Car
    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    My 3rd Project
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Sevenoaks, Kent, United Kingdom
    Age
    54
    Posts
    925,744
    Thanks
    59
    Thanked 279 Times in 179 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    The £1200 was using all my contacts too LOL. Its still dear though

  29. #29
    Pit Crew Decade Plus User nickmk11's Avatar

    My 1st Project
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    uk kent
    Age
    51
    Posts
    1,143
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    dry sumps .take a look at pace start at £695
    http://www.paceproducts.co.uk/automotive-parts.shtml

  30. #30
    Management Team Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    Turbosport Moderator
    Clint's Avatar
    My Race Car
    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    My 3rd Project
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Sevenoaks, Kent, United Kingdom
    Age
    54
    Posts
    925,744
    Thanks
    59
    Thanked 279 Times in 179 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Dry sumping really needs thinking about:

    1, what will you do with the under piston oil spray? - run jets if so £300+ for the jets and block machining

    2, should you need a 4th stage on the pump to scavange from the turbo - +£100 on cost of pump

    3, you need a dry sump tank, idealy in the front of the car HT charge £400ish for a custom one, a proper round one will cost £200ish

    Block modification £50+

    Pipes and fittings - £100+

    Sump pan will need to be custom made if you have moved the engine back £250

  31. #31
    Part of the furniture Decade Plus User Kevmk2's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    London
    Age
    48
    Posts
    10,228
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 20 Times in 20 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    £695 then you have to buy -12 hoses and fittings on top and run them to the boot,thats around £300-350 then the tank for the oil etc.

  32. #32
    Racer Decade Plus User Dom's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    UK/France
    Age
    53
    Posts
    1,934
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    I have to agree with mark that it seems strange that people spend 5-10k on a motor then say dry sumping is to dear I mean if you do dry sump then you dont have to spend £280 on that HT racing wet sump so now dry sumping is down to £900

  33. #33
    Management Team Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    Turbosport Moderator
    Clint's Avatar
    My Race Car
    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    My 3rd Project
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Sevenoaks, Kent, United Kingdom
    Age
    54
    Posts
    925,744
    Thanks
    59
    Thanked 279 Times in 179 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    The point being the Standard sumps are very good in the first place, for a little extra money you can get it modified which will virtually guarentee against a surge failure (HT have not seen a failure down to oil surge with a modded sump).
    You could argue the same point you made about the engine management, why spend 5k on a 400HP engine and not spend £1200 replacing the ECU sensors injectors and loom etc ?
    Its all down to money before you know it you have spent a fortune and for what really, a little piece of mind, which you can get with a few less expensive mods

  34. #34
    Mechanic Bob2's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    542
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Scot said:
    Why not just have a wing on the exhaust side if you're worried about losing oil capacity and going to have probs with the starter?
    Use a gear reduction starter then no probs getting it in and out! U have to turn one of the bolts round to make it easier to fit.



    Obveously no good to people who have a cossie starter already (ie with the engine they bought) but once u pay for the bellhousing mod then it works out roughly the same price!

    Patrick

  35. #35
    Management Team Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    Turbosport Moderator
    Clint's Avatar
    My Race Car
    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    My 3rd Project
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Sevenoaks, Kent, United Kingdom
    Age
    54
    Posts
    925,744
    Thanks
    59
    Thanked 279 Times in 179 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Move the engine back and thers no problem with the starter....or sump

  36. #36
    Mechanic Bob2's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    542
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Clint said:
    Move the engine back and thers no problem with the starter....or sump
    True but those like me who are lazey and poor!!!

  37. #37
    Management Team Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    Turbosport Moderator
    Clint's Avatar
    My Race Car
    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    My 3rd Project
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Sevenoaks, Kent, United Kingdom
    Age
    54
    Posts
    925,744
    Thanks
    59
    Thanked 279 Times in 179 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Bob2 said:
    Clint said:
    Move the engine back and thers no problem with the starter....or sump
    True but those like me who are lazey and poor!!!
    It would cost about the same as a trick starter and modified sump !

  38. #38
    TURBOSPORT SPONSOR Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Sponsor


    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Dorking
    Posts
    1,445
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    I have to agree on standard sumps not being that good,on the track etc.
    Ive heard of a few people blowing up big money pintos,just because thay used a rs2000 sump
    Even after they have been told track day is not the best thing to do.

  39. #39
    Part of the furniture Decade Plus User Kevmk2's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    London
    Age
    48
    Posts
    10,228
    Thanks
    26
    Thanked 20 Times in 20 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Exactly,look what happened to BMX on track

  40. #40
    Management Team Decade Plus User
    Turbosport Subscriber
    Turbosport Moderator
    Clint's Avatar
    My Race Car
    My 1st Project
    My 2nd Project
    My 3rd Project
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Sevenoaks, Kent, United Kingdom
    Age
    54
    Posts
    925,744
    Thanks
    59
    Thanked 279 Times in 179 Posts

    Re: Cossie sump into an old skool ...MODIFIED BY H

    Kevmk2Cossie said:
    Exactly,look what happened to BMX on track
    But wasnt that an oil pump issue ?

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showf...part=2&vc=1

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts