anyone know if this would be achievable to put the variable valve timing onto a normal 2.0 zetec silvertop? would it be too much of a pain to do the wiring side of things.
anyone know if this would be achievable to put the variable valve timing onto a normal 2.0 zetec silvertop? would it be too much of a pain to do the wiring side of things.
dunno about that... isn't the vvt 170 lump the zetec s??
I think it may involve extensive fabrication just to swap the two but i'm sure someone who actually knows what they;re talking about will confirm or deny this!!!
The ST170 is the DURATEC, it could be done, and would be very good but you would have to start from scratch as I do not know of any companies that make DURATEC stuff for Escorts yet. Raceline do the water rail you will need though.
If it is into a Mondeo it should be pretty easy if you have all the loom and ecu from the st170. You might even be lucky enough that the mounting points on the new mondeo are the same as the old one, in which case nick some duratec engine mounts from one. Not sure about built in immobilisers though. I think it might be easy and cheaper to get the standard zetec head ported/decent cams and run on throttle bodies. That will get you around 200bhp easily.
Richard
I'm 99% sure the ST170 isnt a Duratec, just that Ford labeled it like that, same goes for the Focus RS which is labeled as a Duratec but isn't, but then again Ford put Sparco badges on the seats and they aren't even Sparco'sThe ST170 is the DURATEC, it could be done, and would be very good but you would have to start from scratch as I do not know of any companies that make DURATEC stuff for Escorts yet. Raceline do the water rail you will need though.
yeah its for in my mondeo.
the st170 engine block is pretty much the same as the zetec but they called it a duratec.
sod it i think i'll get a supercharger instead! unless i can get some throttle bodies cheap from somewhere.
Motorbike throttle bodies, £40 a set!!! Can't get cheaper than that!!
yeah one of the guys over on the mondeo forum has just got some and is gonna try and put them on, if he is successful i might give it a bash. i would rather get the proper things though to be honest.
A throttle body, is a throttle body.
If we all start using the much cheaper motorbike throttle bodies maybe Jenvey and co will realise they are over charging us!! There is no way a throttle body should cost more than a carburetor, all it is is a tube with a butterfly in it and a hole for an injector!!!
What will probably happen instead is the motorbike guys will realise and start charging us more for their throttle bodies
. Hopefully not before I bag myself a set though. By the way, where would you get the silicon tubing to connect the throttle bodies to the manifold? I was thinking possibly Samco but would it be cheaper from a motorbike place? All my parts are on order now. Getting excited
Richard
I just bought the appropriate sized SAMCO tubing, it's about £40 a metre though depending on size. BUT I can no try a bit of pulse tuning and try different lengths on the RR to see if there any gains to be had.
This will be a very interesting subject zetec escorts, let us know what make/model and size throttle bodies you get and what the results are as this might be a cheap way to power for the zetec/duratec/vauxhall xe boys
yeah and any photos and notes from doing it would be great.
percy
considering the cost of superchargers and fitting, im sure you could probably buy brand new TB's and fit them twice over, ???sod it i think i'll get a supercharger instead! unless i can get some throttle bodies cheap from somewhere.
the prices i saw for throttle bodies on the zetec including fitting was £2000 ish. wouldnt have a clue how to fit em.
supercharger, £1500 plus shipping and import duty, fit it myself and then get a remap of the chip. and it would be quicker than having throttle bodies.
Hmm I would be surprised if the standard ECU could run a supercharger with just a remap. You could always do a turbo conversion using RS Turbo parts. Should be aroud 250bhp on a turbo. All the options seem to cost around the same by the looks of it but the £2000 throttle body setup is plug and play. Everything you need is there and it all just bolts on. No mapping or anything if the rest of the engine is standard. Plus throttle bodies make the best noise by far! I'm doing throttle bodies on the cheap so I'll post pics when I get started.
Richard
i had looked into it and somebody like bluefin can get a supercharger working on a zetec, but it wouldnt be as good has having a omex system or something like that.
if i could do throttle bodies on the cheap and it was plug and play i would do it tomorrow.
trouble is i have a wet nitrous system so i would have to change that for direct port if i had throttle bodies wouldnt I?
plus i am a big fan of fuel injection for in the winter and stuff.
I wouldve thought a supercharged setup up would be much more expensive to buy and fit and map properly to get any sort of decent power upgrade but ultimatly its forced induction so lower compression ratios and the like should prob be considered for good results and reliability.
Unless you had a airbox type filter which fed all the air to your throttle boddies you would need to change to direct port nitrous..
Stick a ST220 lump in there
if i wanted a 3.0 it would be much easier to do it on one which was a V6 to start with - i cant be bothered getting a 6-pot conversion which is why i am persuing the route of tuning the 4-pot. also i deliberately got a 4-pot mondy after having 6-pot cars in the past which are more time consuming and expensive to repair and put petrol in!
i got some honda fire blade throttle boddies to put on my zetec, but it looks like its gonna cost to convert to a different management.
i have a few zetec parts if ppl need some here http://www.escortbreakers.co.uk
Just use the megasquirt 2 with EDIS, should cost less than £200 for full 3d engine management.
whats thet all about thenJust use the megasquirt 2 with EDIS, should cost less than £200 for full 3d engine management.
Oh and I don't know if anyone noticed, but in Classic Ford this month there was an Escort with an ST170 engine in done by Retro Ford. Might be worth picking their brains as they have been really helpful with bits and pieces for my zetec conversion.
Richard
I would love to have a play with one of these engines, I would guess there a lot of untapped performace but getting that VVT working properly
yeah when you think about it the ST170 is a tuned up version of the normal 2.0 duratec/zetec, yet ford only managed to squeeze another 35bhp out of it and its got better cams, better zorst manifold, better zorst and air intake, variable valve timing and better intake manifold etc. really they could have had more out of it.
people who have tuned the ST170 with uprated exhaust, induction and chip have only got them to about 183bhp but some have got much better torque figures over standard. it seems the ST170 is quite restricted with what you can do on "bolt-on" mods, apparently even fitting cams would need head work to make them work properly. even nitrous is a problem because the ECU wont like it, but the simpler dry nos kit will work but as we know its not as effective as wet or direct port.
i suppose because its a new-ish engine not many people have experimented much yet, due to being scared of voiding warranty etc.
I real reason it hasn't got any more power is it would have been too close to the Focus RS if it had any more power. Now the Focus RS is not being made anymore I expect the new Focus ST to be around the 200bhp mark. It may have trick cams and vvt etc but its still got to pass emisions and give good fuel economy. Thats what really holds the engine back. Whack a new programmable ecu and some throttle bodies on the st170 engine and I bet its easily over 200bhp. Especially considering that if you just change those two things on a standard duratec it gives you almost 200bhp
Richard
I'm sniffing around an ST170 engine at the mo after all the grief everybody gives me for using a 2.0 twin cam 8v motor in my escort. It won't be cheap but if I can get aftermarket managment to run the VVT and throttle bodies then it's a viable option. We'll have to see what gives with the one from Retro Ford/ Classic ford Mag.
Si
I talked to Dave from Retro Ford (the guy that own the st170 engined escort) and he said that its a zetec engine and that the zetec conversion parts fit it. As a bonus you can bolt motorbike throttle bodies straight to the inlet manifold. Seems like an excellent conversion and I probably would have gone for this engine if I had known.
Richard
I believe with a mild port and polish, a decent exhaust and some better cams they can be made very close to 200bhp. I was reading some good stuff on FFOC.co.uk the other day. I'll try and get a link for you guys
yeah he got 194bhp from a ST170 with upgraded cat-back custom exhaust, K&N typhoon induction kit, superchip, and an adjustable cam gear on the exhaust cam (set up and adjusted at power engineering). he took me out for a spin in it tonight and it absolutely flies!
Hmm it seems a little easy doesn't it. Surely Ford would have done this if it was that easy. Has he had a power run on any other rollers? I'd be seriously impressed if that much power was gained with those mods.
yes if you click on that FFOC link above theres dyno graphs and everything to prove it.
ford wanted to keep the power to round about 170bhp so it was more subtle (hence they look no different externally apart from alloys)
some of the other guys on FFOC are at 192/193bhp with zorst, induction, chip, UDP and better throttle body. one of them regularly does 0-60 in 6.9 secs (ford fair drag strip etc). heres one of them here http://www.ffst170.com/
decent power gains can be had without forced induction, carbs or throttle bodies!
Thats impressive stuff then. I think I remember hearing that they limited the power as they didn't want to take away sales from the RS Focus.
Might have to upgrade to one of these engines when/if my zetec goes pop! Should be easily over 200bhp with the setup I'm using on the zetec.
probably to do with emissions aswell, plus the fact ford hasnt got a clue what its doing when it sets an engine up. for example on my 1.8TD all that needs to be done is wind a few screws on the fuel pump, and it makes a lovely change to power and is quick when pulling off roundabouts etc (which was always a major critisim of this engine) - and it uses hardly any extra fuel, and still passes MOT emissions test.
and they've done a detuned version of the St170 in the new fezza ST which alot of people are saying is pretty tame (especially considering the £15k price tag)
Ford always seem to be worried about gearboxes, the RST Escort was turned down for production from 150bhp, the Puma's have a torque limiter on the lower gears, turbo diesel have lots of torque so that could be the reason.
i know of loads of people where the dual mass flywheel and clutch has failed on the ST170 (some with very low mileages) and i've heard of a few happening on the mk3 mondeo's (mainly TDCi i think?).
i read about a RS turbo where he had put a 1.8TD gearbox on the car because it was heavier duty? he must have had to change the ratios though
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