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Thread: ST170 Install

  1. #41
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    Re: ST170 Install

    Hi!
    I'm about to fit an ST170 engine to my MGB GT. Did you have to adapt the crossmember and/or the sump?

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    Re: ST170 Install

    I know someone who has fitted a black top with original sump to one, although that still required cutting to the cross member. I've had to cut my cross member and also went for a retro ford sump
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails WP_20150211_0091.jpg‎  


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    Re: ST170 Install

    I didn't modify the crossmember on mine I used a CVH sump which needs a bit of work to fit, I used a MGC bonnet for a bit more clearance..
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo77 View Post
    Hi!
    I'm about to fit an ST170 engine to my MGB GT. Did you have to adapt the crossmember and/or the sump?

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Thanks for the info. I guess I'll see for myself what needs cutting when I go for the trial fit.
    How did you fuel it? Did you retain the returnless system?

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    Re: ST170 Install

    It's running a standard fuel pump which I've put into a swirl pot which is controlled by the standard fuel pump driver(ecu) the returnless system is retained...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo77 View Post
    Thanks for the info. I guess I'll see for myself what needs cutting when I go for the trial fit.
    How did you fuel it? Did you retain the returnless system?

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    Re: ST170 Install

    FYI: You can use the RX8 gearbox instead of type 9 if you prefer with the St170. I have this in my MGB. I bought the adapter plate off freddy on these forums.

    Then you can use the standard MGB clutch master, standard RX8 clutch slave and get a hose made up.

    Click image for larger version Name:	IMG_0688.JPG Views:	326 Size:	119.6 KB ID:	80488

    I also cut the sump and rewelded and cut the cross member...

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    Last edited by Pilt; 17-03-2017 at 15:10.

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    Re: ST170 Install

    @TTBIKER , did you have to modify the bulkhead or area near the brake master cylinder to clear the inlet manifold? I haven't quite got the final engine position yet but it doesn't look like it'll fit unless I get the grinder out.

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Yes I had to cut out a chunk where the steering column comes through and a bit where the heater box used to sit,Click image for larger version Name:	Engine1.JPG Views:	276 Size:	63.3 KB ID:	80750Click image for larger version Name:	engine2.JPG Views:	277 Size:	42.5 KB ID:	80751
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo77 View Post
    @TTBIKER , did you have to modify the bulkhead or area near the brake master cylinder to clear the inlet manifold? I haven't quite got the final engine position yet but it doesn't look like it'll fit unless I get the grinder out.

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Thanks @TTBIKER . Did those mods mean you lost the bracket that the steering column attaches to?
    And did the coil pack and thermostat housing fit ok?

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo77 View Post
    Thanks @TTBIKER . Did those mods mean you lost the bracket that the steering column attaches to?
    And did the coil pack and thermostat housing fit ok?
    The steering column still attaches as per standard and the coil pack and the thermostat housing fits OK without moving them you just can't have a standard MGB heater box fitted..

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    Re: ST170 Install

    @Pilt , @escos , how are your builds progressing? I'm still trial fitting the engine, just discovered that the water pump outlet fouls the chassis rail...

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    Re: ST170 Install

    I'm all fitted and running now, just completed 200 miles with the last 100 oil leak free and running really well, just needs a good tuning session now. I'll either take it to Emerald or look for someone localish to Milton Keynes

    With the water pump I cut the lip off the chassis rail and a little off the end of the pump, just left enough for the hose and a clamp to go on and secure it. You could go further a grind off the lip on the pump to get the hose on further, but this is holding up and not rubbing
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails WP_20170521_13_14_28_Pro.jpg‎  

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo77 View Post
    @Pilt , @escos , how are your builds progressing? I'm still trial fitting the engine, just discovered that the water pump outlet fouls the chassis rail...
    Hi,

    Done about 6000 miles (wifes daily driver) with this setup now, although i still have not got the blooming CAM timing to work, but finally having changed to a Hall effect sensor I should be able to do it now!!!


    Regarding the water pump, just modify the water outlet to suit with a dremel . No need to change the chassis at all....

    Also i used the retro ford water rail and COP coil packs from a later Focus. Because of this I also retained the original heater. Alternator from a 1.2 Nissan Micra

    Click image for larger version Name:	outlet.jpg Views:	203 Size:	29.2 KB ID:	80881
    Last edited by Pilt; 22-05-2017 at 13:08.

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Thanks for the info and pics guys, useful stuff!

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Here are a few more photos for you!

    The last three are from my Honeymoon last June. We drove 3000 miles through France, German (two laps of Nurburgring), Austria and Italy (up lots of mountains), two days after I finished the car....

    Anyway in Italy I had to remove the whole engine because i didn't bother to replace the pilot bearing in the crank and it failed, luckly some very friendly Italians let me use their workshop for free and they happened to be a Ford dealership! If you are doing this please fit a new pilot bearing!

    I also used an Electric Waterpump to make the belt easier to do. The pink trumpet is a 3D printed airbox i am working on. The throttle bodies are GSXR 750 (although they make a terrible whistling noise at part throttle)

    If i did it all again i would probably start with using the Ford ECU and inlet manifold as I have had lots of problems with the ECU getting the CAM to work, I have also done all 6000 miles with NO air filter, I have a spare engine and a proper air filter costs more than the engine! I am therefore designing my own inlet with long curved trumpets

    Here it is going around the Nurburgring



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  16. #56
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    Re: ST170 Install

    @Jimbo77 , do you have a RB or CB model, if CB early narrow tunnel or not?

    I've started off with a 67 CB Narrow Tunnel shell and had to cut the passenger foot well, fitted a remote oil filter due to the early column, RB are slightly easier as the shell alterations are mainly done and you may or may not need to remove a bit for an exhaust depending on which way you go and you can use a small filter to clear the pinion shaft.

    @Pilt , nice conversion any upgrades on the suspension, brakes?
    I see you've used the original manifold as well albeit modified, did you have to cut anything off near the head to clear the inner wing?

    You have me worried on the bearing now, although it should be ok as the engine has only done a genuine 23k, I do need mine mapping but the Westfield map for pretty much the same spec engine appears to be working well and just needs a good setup, what sort of power are you running as well?

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilt View Post
    Anyway in Italy I had to remove the whole engine because i didn't bother to replace the pilot bearing in the crank and it failed, luckly some very friendly Italians let me use their workshop for free and they happened to be a Ford dealership! If you are doing this please fit a new pilot bearing!
    Interesting..... did you fit a spigot bearing before doing the install as if you used a fresh crate engine or a s/hand FWD engine it wouldn't have had a bearing fitted at all - only required for RWD gearboxes.

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Quote Originally Posted by katana View Post
    Interesting..... did you fit a spigot bearing before doing the install as if you used a fresh crate engine or a s/hand FWD engine it wouldn't have had a bearing fitted at all - only required for RWD gearboxes.
    The ST170 engine has a spigot bearing fitted from the Factory. Cant remember if it is actually used by the 6 speed box. Engine had done 80k miles but bearing looked/felt ok so did not change it at the time as was annoyed with Ford at how expensive/slow the dealer was at getting parts! FYI, Im in Farnborough so you may have seen me going up and down the A331

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Quote Originally Posted by escos View Post
    nice conversion any upgrades on the suspension, brakes?
    I see you've used the original manifold as well albeit modified, did you have to cut anything off near the head to clear the inner wing?
    Yes, original manifold + Jetex 2 into 1 adapter. Had to make it shorter to fit, just cut about 2 inch out of it where it attaches to the flange on the head and re-weld. The head and inner wing are not modified, just a small dent in the downpipe to clear the subframe where it mounts!

    At the moment it is all brand new suspension and brakes, still with lever arm dampers! Had to use 35mm lowering springs as the engine is so much lighter and it looked like a boat! Want to 4 link the rear end and do coilovers at the front at some point in the future, Brakes are standard disks with Mintex M1144 pads which work really well but squeal like nothing else!

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Quote Originally Posted by escos View Post
    nice conversion any upgrades on the suspension, brakes?
    I see you've used the original manifold as well albeit modified, did you have to cut anything off near the head to clear the inner wing?
    Yes, original manifold + Jetex 2 into 1 adapter. Had to make it shorter to fit, just cut about 2 inch out of it where it attaches to the flange on the head and re-weld. The head and inner wing are not modified, just a small dent in the downpipe to clear the subframe where it mounts!

    At the moment it is all brand new suspension and brakes, still with lever arm dampers! Had to use 35mm front lowering springs as the engine is so much lighter and it looked like a boat! Want to 4 link the rear end and do coilovers at the front at some point in the future, Brakes are standard disks with Mintex M1144 pads which work really well but squeal like nothing else!

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    Re: ST170 Install

    @escos , my car is a 1970 Chrome bumber, which I think makes it a wide tunnel. I haven't had to touch the footwells (yet) but then I'm not at the exhaust manifold fitting stage yet.
    @Pilt , I put a new spigot/pilot bearing in, so I should be ok! Like yours, the old one didn't appear too bad, but I figured I'd replace it anyway, while I was there. Interesting that you say you'd use the original ECU if you did it again, my plan is to use the OEM ECU but in moments of doubt I wonder if a K6 would be easier! I'm glad you mentioned the front springs, I was wondering how much the loss of weight would make to the ride height.

    Which clutch are you using? I wasn't sure if the extra horses of the ST170 would be too much for a pinto clutch to handle?

    Here's a few pics of mine. I found it in a yard with missing windows. The fuel tank was full of water and it had holes everywhere!

    Click image for larger version Name:	20150228_131714.jpg Views:	193 Size:	134.7 KB ID:	80894Click image for larger version Name:	FB_IMG_1495533328972.jpg Views:	193 Size:	41.2 KB ID:	80895Click image for larger version Name:	FB_IMG_1495533336397.jpg Views:	193 Size:	49.2 KB ID:	80896Click image for larger version Name:	FB_IMG_1495533353783.jpg Views:	191 Size:	47.6 KB ID:	80897

  22. #62
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    Re: ST170 Install

    @Pilt , thanks for the info, was just being curious. I've had a custom exhaust made for mine, guy made a really nice job of it and does the exhausts for the Frontline LE50's. I originally had all new suspension, lever arms and some lowered rear springs, unfortunately for me the alloy tank (bought second hand but not used, made for the B) I have has the outlet right near the rear spring, after putting it all together it was just sitting too close, so opted for the Frontline 5 link rear suspension, still got lowered springs and lever arms on the front but will upgrade to their front kit over the winter to make it all matching, mine doesn't sit much higher at the front than with the 1800 in, but could do with coming down a bit.

    @Jimbo77 , yeah you should have the wide tunnel, offside should be the same as the near side, you'll also have the later column to give you more clearance around the oil filter.
    That was looking very sorry for itself.

    I'm running a standard pinto clutch but not really been able to use full power, time will tell when it gets booked in on the rolling road. I opted for the K6 purely as I'm sure I will do further work to the engine in the future and thought I might as well have something that can just be tweaked for any other mods I may want to do in the future, it's expensive but will be worth it in the long run

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Hi,


    Im using the retro Ford zetec flywheel and Pinto clutch and not had any problems and done 6000 miles now, but i did modify the engine to Gearbox adapter plate (cut and reweld) so i could use the ST170 starter as the solenoid is on the other side so gives more exhaust clearance then using the recommended Pinto starter


    Regarding ECU, so far i have been unable to get the cam working properly so have a lack of power below 6000 then 6000 - 7200 it goes like a rocket, so im missing a bucket load of midrange as the CAM is just fully retarded or fully advanced! If you go standalone make sure it will work with the ST170 CAM trigger. This is an odd trigger wheel as it has 5 teeth which is not like a lot of other engines. (I have had to cut off 4 teeth on my CAM). If the K6 works with the original CAM sensor then I would go with that, its just i have gone down the road of using a GEMS Em36 ECU (got it for nothing) but have only now just been able to get the cam to be detected. If I had started with the original ECU i would have had more power all this time, BUT i think to do that you would need to integrate the original inlet manifold and do something about Lambda sensor or add a CAT to stop errors/limp home. So swings and roundabouts.
    @escos I would love the front line rear kit, but they charge an awful lot for it. Have you driven back to back with both standard and the kit? Is it much better?
    Last edited by Pilt; 23-05-2017 at 17:25.

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Is that the lightweight flywheel? If it is same setup as me, although I did go for the retro ford lhd starter and light weight alternator, but gets very expensive.

    They do charge a hefty amount for it, but I needed to get rid of the back of the leaf spring and didn't have many options. Unfortunately I never had the 5 link with the 1800 engine, only had standard with that, and it was very good, could keep up with most things in the corners. I haven't had chance to push this one, but it does feel an improvement, time will tell whether I got value for money!!

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Would this prove a better option rather than working with a 'bit long in the tooth' ecu?.......https://motorsport-electronics.co.uk...l#!prettyPhoto

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilt View Post
    Here are a few more photos for you!

    The last three are from my Honeymoon last June. We drove 3000 miles through France, German (two laps of Nurburgring), Austria and Italy (up lots of mountains), two days after I finished the car....

    Anyway in Italy I had to remove the whole engine because i didn't bother to replace the pilot bearing in the crank and it failed, luckly some very friendly Italians let me use their workshop for free and they happened to be a Ford dealership! If you are doing this please fit a new pilot bearing!

    I also used an Electric Waterpump to make the belt easier to do. The pink trumpet is a 3D printed airbox i am working on. The throttle bodies are GSXR 750 (although they make a terrible whistling noise at part throttle)

    If i did it all again i would probably start with using the Ford ECU and inlet manifold as I have had lots of problems with the ECU getting the CAM to work, I have also done all 6000 miles with NO air filter, I have a spare engine and a proper air filter costs more than the engine! I am therefore designing my own inlet with long curved trumpets

    Here it is going around the Nurburgring



    Attachment 80882Attachment 80883Attachment 80884Attachment 80885Attachment 80886Attachment 80887Attachment 80888Attachment 80889





    i know how to cure that horrible whistling at part throttle. looks like your running the same srad 98/99 bodies? the noise is the air blowing over the first hole you see when looking on the bodies. its the bleed hole for the balancing adjustment. mine drove me crazy and took a while to find it. what id did was plug the holes with some gasket sealer. then you have to carefully balance the bodies on the screw adjustment between each butterfly. its a faff to get them right but worth it to get rid of that horrible noise

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Hi. Im doing the exact same engine swap. How did you sort your TPS with the bike carbs? What kind of choke did you use please. Im going through all the ems setup. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

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