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Thread: ST170 Install

  1. #1
    Bodger

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    ST170 Install

    I'm currently in the process of putting an ST170 engine in my MGB GT!

    The spec to start will be a standard engine, jenvey throttle bodies and either an SC Typhoon or the Emerald K6 ecu.

    As I have the original focus loom, I was wondering if I could reuse the loom rather than having to buy one, but unsure if the loom is compatible for this?

    I'm happy to do the wiring and have the current loom all stripped and plugs labelled, but have a couple of questions, if the loom would be suitable to use
    with this setup do I need the IMRC (I'm guessing not. but not entirely sure what sensors control the VVT), any help would be appreciated

  2. #2
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    Re: ST170 Install

    you would have to modify the oe loom.

    IMRC???

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    Bodger

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Hi Graham, thanks for that when you say modify the loom, would this be more than labelling the sensors needed, removing anything that is not needed such as the a/c bits, cutting off the ecu plug and wiring the new ecu plug with the correct pinouts?

    I guess what I'm trying to ask is would some of the wiring need to change within the existing loom?

    IMRC aka inlet manifold runner control, I think this is on the original inlet manifold but as I'm going to throttle bodies I'm not sure if this is required or not. I'm guessing not from the wiring diagrams I've seen but not seen a specific diagram for the ST170 engine going to either one of those ecu's

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    Re: ST170 Install

    although never an st170 loom i have modified oe looms to run on aftermarket ecu's, sometimes its not much than cutting teh plug of and putting a new one on, others are so much more complicated its easier to start from scratch.

    your right using throttle bodies you wont have IMRC.

    not sure i can help too much with a loom unless your going to use/adapt a generic emerald loom, but if you end up in the market for new jenveys or a k6 give me a shout

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    World Champion Decade Plus User alladdin's Avatar

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    May wall be easier to make a new engine loom from the parts you strip from original, your new one will be simpler .

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    Bodger

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    although never an st170 loom i have modified oe looms to run on aftermarket ecu's, sometimes its not much than cutting teh plug of and putting a new one on, others are so much more complicated its easier to start from scratch.

    your right using throttle bodies you wont have IMRC.

    not sure i can help too much with a loom unless your going to use/adapt a generic emerald loom, but if you end up in the market for new jenveys or a k6 give me a shout
    Thanks for the advice Graham, I guess I need to get a little further with the labelling and once done do a little diagram to show where each takes it's feeds from and compare that to the relevant ecu wiring diagram to see whether it can be done without too much hassle. I'm only going down this route to see if I can save myself a few hundred on a new loom.

    I will most definitely be in touch about the jenveys, just don't have the money for them at the moment otherwise I'd be knocking on your door now as that's a superb price for them. Out of interest how much for a K6, I just can't decide on the ecu at present although I'm beginning to be swayed more towards the K6 as there are more tuners locally to me that can map them, where as the SC Typhoon I think I'm limited to taking the car to Norfolk for them to map it.

    Quote Originally Posted by alladdin View Post
    May wall be easier to make a new engine loom from the parts you strip from original, your new one will be simpler .
    Thanks mate, your input is appreciated.

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    Re: ST170 Install

    K6 £650 delivered, if you buy in conjunction with throttle bodies i can do a bit more off

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Graham would the k6 come with a good base map if bought with the throttle bodies and can this ecu control the vvt

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    Bodger

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    Re: ST170 Install

    When I get the money together I'll get both of you then. Do you just supply or map them as well?

    Couple of pics with the engine in the bay before it was painted and one after paint, just really waiting on the box now, before the engine can go back in. But I've got plenty to keep me busy with the main wiring the main job now. I'm still a way off completing yet, but its getting there slowly
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails WP_20150129_0051a.jpg‎  

    WP_20150827_002a.jpg‎  


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    Re: ST170 Install

    Quote Originally Posted by Turboman View Post
    Graham would the k6 come with a good base map if bought with the throttle bodies and can this ecu control the vvt
    yes to both

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Ok thanks Graham

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    Bodger

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    Re: ST170 Install

    After reading the manual, it appears that I need
    Lamba (guess either the pre cat or post cat one would be fine, but need to check the wiring on the focus loom)
    TPS
    Cam Sensor
    Air Temp (not sure which one this is on the focus?)
    Coolant temp
    Injectors
    Coil
    Crank Sensor
    Map Sensor (will need one of those, any recommendations?)

    Already got the fuel pump, rev counter, and cooling fan output in my main diagram with them being switched earths at the ECU. So don't think I need much else unless I've missed the obvious or there are things worth doing now

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Careful with the lambda's as OEM tend towards narrow band sensors basically to maintain AFR's towards the lean / chemically correct burn ratio of 14.7:1 for fuel economy - not what a performance orientated install requires. Most peeps would use a standalone wideband that can feed into the aftermarket ECU to allow on the fly fueling / map adjustments outside the narrow band range with accuracy.

  14. #14
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    Re: ST170 Install

    if your going to use throttle bodies you dont want a map sensor

  15. #15
    Bodger

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    Re: ST170 Install

    ah ok makes it a little simpler, is that the Intake Air Temp sensor on the focus?

    Thanks Katana on the tip on the lamba sensors, any preference on make?
    Last edited by escos; 21-10-2015 at 18:55.

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    Bodger

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    Re: ST170 Install

    also noticed I'm missing the VVT solenoid off the list

  17. #17
    Bodger

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Getting there with all the pinouts now, the only ones I can't figure out from the manual and diagrams are which pinouts on the Emerald relate to the CAM Sensor and VVT Solenoid, any ideas?

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  19. #18
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    Re: ST170 Install

    pin 15 is usually cam sensor input, as for the vvt i dont know, they used to use the shift light wire, may still do but controlled as vvt not a shift light. but they can configure the ecu in several ways, the generic diagram on the website may not apply to all installations.

    im presuming you are trying to re use the oe ford loom?

    karl is pretty helpfull if you email emerald

  20. #19
    Bodger

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Thanks Graham, I'd like to re-use the oe ford loom if possible, more to save a bit of money so I can spend it on other bits for the car. Thanks for the pin out info, not sure how I didn't spot that in the manual. I'm also guessing then its earth goes back to pin 32 along with the crank sensor earth?

    I'll get a bit further with my pinouts and then email them over to emerald to confirm, but Pin 3 could be the output for the VVT as from what I can make out it has the PWM control, but hopefully Karl can confirm that

  21. #20
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    Re: ST170 Install

    How are you getting on with your MGB build? I've just finished my ST170 engined MGB but I'm running it on standard fuel injection.
    Give me a shout if you need any advice..

  22. #21
    Bodger

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    Re: ST170 Install

    nearly there with it now, got the Emerald and throttle bodies coming soon. Once they're here it will be just a case of fitting and then getting an exhaust made.

    Be interested to see some pics of yours and how you've installed it, also any details on whether you got a bespoke exhaust made or just modded the original ones?

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    Re: ST170 Install


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    Re: ST170 Install



    Here's the headers I made..

  25. #24
    Bodger

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    Re: ST170 Install

    That's a very tidy install and nice welding on the headers. Presume you're using a Type 9 and it is a later car with the dual circuit brake lines? Hadn't realised when I started mine that I had an early shell with the narrow tunnel!

    Here's a pic of my bay

  26. #25
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    Re: ST170 Install

    Yes it's a late model with dual circuit brakes, Type 9 box with RS2000 Bellhousing with a homemade clutch slave cylinder similar to the Retroford type.


  27. #26
    Bodger

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    Re: ST170 Install

    That looks lovely, especially with the sebring kit, same setup as mine then but with the Retroford centre push.

    What's it like to drive and what seats do you have?
    can't wait until mines ready it's been 2 years nearly since I stripped it to a bare shell

  28. #27
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    Re: ST170 Install

    It goes very well it just needs the suspension setting up properly I'm running the Hoyle suspension front and rear so it's fully adjustable.
    The seats are Sparco Sprint which are bolted directly to the floor..

  29. #28
    Bodger

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Very nice indeed, I'd like to go that way with the suspension in the future, but currently running with lowered front springs and leaf springs, still with the lever arms!!! It handled very well before, but who knows what it'll be like with over double the power, one of those things I can improve and change over time, I just want the damn thing running now

    That's good news on the Sparco seats as they were the ones I was looking at, about the only ones with a suitable width for the car. These cars are becoming a lot more popular for this type of conversion now, I know of one with a black top and one with a duratec in it now, you're the only other one in the UK I know of with an ST170 lump in it

    Quick pic of my interior as it stands

  30. #29
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    Re: ST170 Install

    It will be interesting to see how it handles on standard suspension I've got a standard car aswell and they are worlds apart!, have you uprated the brakes?

  31. #30
    Bodger

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Oh yes it certainly will be interesting, yes got princess 4 pots om the front. It's going to be a lot of trial and error i think!

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Nice looking MGB TTBiker did you use the OEM ECU with that installation.

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Lovely looking car

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    Re: ST170 Install

    Yes it's running the standard Ford ECU
    Quote Originally Posted by 105e gary View Post
    Nice looking MGB TTBiker did you use the OEM ECU with that installation.

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    Bodger

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    Re: ST170 Install

    @TTBIKER , just out of interest, what remote oil housing did you use. I had to use a canton one due to the way the early cars rack sit

  36. #35
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    Re: ST170 Install

    Did you modify the original harness to get it to work or did you purchase a new one, I am looking to use the same combination in a 67 Anglia.

  37. #36
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    Re: ST170 Install

    I used a Mocal
    Click image for larger version Name:	1485279820_tmp_Remote_jpg_thumb.png Views:	469 Size:	21.5 KB ID:	80142
    Quote Originally Posted by escos View Post
    @TTBIKER , just out of interest, what remote oil housing did you use. I had to use a canton one due to the way the early cars rack sit

  38. #37
    Bodger

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    Re: ST170 Install

    that different rack and shaft on the later cars would have saved me a right load of hassle
    Click image for larger version Name:	WP_20160406_21_17_36_Pro1.jpg Views:	463 Size:	132.8 KB ID:	80143

  39. #38
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    Re: ST170 Install

    I modified the original harness see this site for informationhttp://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=174681&page=1
    Quote Originally Posted by 105e gary View Post
    Did you modify the original harness to get it to work or did you purchase a new one, I am looking to use the same combination in a 67 Anglia.

  40. #39
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    Re: ST170 Install

    Sorry about the size of my picture of my engine bay I'll resize it and post it again later..

  41. #40
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    Re: ST170 Install

    Click image for larger version Name:	Remote.jpg Views:	447 Size:	80.5 KB ID:	80145

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