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Thread: Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

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    Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham View Post
    thats good, fitting smaller chokes will make it run richer, and with more compression the timing will now be too advanced, so a dyno session should reap good results


    Ignition timing or cam timing?
    Last edited by Tabblink; 08-11-2015 at 10:10.

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    Re: Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    ignition

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    Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    H&H made my ignition setup on the info given to me by the head builder. Working on a 10.8-11.1 ratio.

    12 degrees advance at idle
    38 degrees at 3500prm and something else I can't remember. Lol

    I've always had it set this way as I wasn't aware I had a low compression engine. So it would have probably been wrong before, and should be right now.

    We will try a few degrees either side of its setting on the dyno.

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    Re: Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    38 degrees @3500 is a lot, definatly wants checking on the rollers

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    Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    Don't quote me. I am fool who knows nothing and going on memory, which is probably wrong.

    It made peak power last time on the low compression engine at 12 degrees idle. Will check this one on the rollers.

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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User MegatronUK's Avatar

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    Re: Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabblink View Post
    H&H made my ignition setup on the info given to me by the head builder. Working on a 10.8-11.1 ratio.
    How did the head guy get to those compression figures? Just wondering, since the old 'How to power tune SOHC Pinto' book mentioned about 10.2:1 (if I recall, it's been a long time since I read it!) with high compression flat top pistons and a -60 head skim. Has the head had any other work done to raise the CR?

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    Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    Quote Originally Posted by MegatronUK View Post
    How did the head guy get to those compression figures? Just wondering, since the old 'How to power tune SOHC Pinto' book mentioned about 10.2:1 (if I recall, it's been a long time since I read it!) with high compression flat top pistons and a -60 head skim. Has the head had any other work done to raise the CR?
    The truth is I'm not sure. It started when my original heat valve seats burnt out. I was looking at getting them done and I had a chat with Eric from JEM engines who built and sold me a big valve ported and polished head. He suggested the cam to use, machines the valve Spring seats to suit etc...

    He told me that his head running on a standard pinto bottom end should be around 10.8-11.1 compression ratio. Maybe it to do with the CC chamber of the head?

    I'm not engine builder. This is the first time I've ever opened an to do more than change a bit of oil so it's all a learning curve.

    He gave me a list of figures to send to h and h for a custom electronic ignition. I'm just trusting his expertise as I defiantly have none.

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    Re: Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    No problem, was just interested that's all. Probably decreased the combustion chamber capacity as you say.

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    Re: Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabblink View Post
    H&H made my ignition setup on the info given to me by the head builder. Working on a 10.8-11.1 ratio.

    12 degrees advance at idle
    38 degrees at 3500prm and something else I can't remember. Lol

    I've always had it set this way as I wasn't aware I had a low compression engine. So it would have probably been wrong before, and should be right now.

    We will try a few degrees either side of its setting on the dyno.
    38° and 11/1, this is a mistake or the guy's at H&H know nothing about ignition advance. Same for what is printed in this "how to tune SOHC Pinto's". These numbers are way to high. I'm talking about 8 tot 10° to much.

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    Re: Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    Quote Originally Posted by onyd View Post
    Same for what is printed in this "how to tune SOHC Pinto's". These numbers are way to high. I'm talking about 8 tot 10° to much.
    i can undertand the tune sohc book, it was written in the days of leaded fuel which burnt slower

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    Re: Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    Maybe but I've got a different theory round these high numbers. I don't think the lead will make such a big difference. For sure it could stand 38° easy without pinking but those day's they also thought max power was as close as possible to pinking. So they set advance until pinking and than back off a little. Today we should all know this is not the case. We talk about MBT (or minimum best timing).

    I've regular been using AVGAS. Full of lead and never saw an other advance needed to make full power. So no prove to me it is burning slower (maybe commercial fuel was little different ). I still think the big numbers are from the way they tested advance.

    I remember we did the same, increasing jet's until the engine stopped performing and fitted one jet smaller, advance until pinking and back of. This was the best tuning I could do on my first Capri and later Escort rally-Cross car back in 1988. Dyno sir? what's a dyno?

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    Re: Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    yes your not wrong, i remember jetting carbs was simply a matter of going up until it was clearly pretty rich and coming back a bit, we didnt know much about reading mixtures back then

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    Re: Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    Reading mixtures??? There was black smoke or no black smoke. I guess all engines where running very rich (an other reason why we probably needed more advance?? And why we needed high CR). This all in combination with a way to long duration cam?? More advance sir?

    I remember we where always so worried about going lean and melt a piston. So we needed black smoke to be safe.

    I know for sure, all Pinto's build today should end up between 28 an 32°. 28° for a good one. If you need more, check your build.

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    Re: Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    lol, i remember racing against a couple of cosworths with "safe" maps in the ecu, and struggling to see through the black smoke! safe? well they were never going to melt a piston, rings wouldnt last 10mins, niether were the bearing with a sump full of fuel but they wre "safe" lol!

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    Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    Quote Originally Posted by onyd View Post
    38° and 11/1, this is a mistake or the guy's at H&H know nothing about ignition advance. Same for what is printed in this "how to tune SOHC Pinto's". These numbers are way to high. I'm talking about 8 tot 10° to much.
    I could well be wrong. Could be 28 degrees. My memory isn't that good...

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    Re: Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    From 8 - 12° idle up to 28° is correct to start with.

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    Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.



    3rd time lucky?

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    Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.



    Okay so, after the latest session this is what we have. The new bottom end defiantly helping power now. Torque is still lower than with the bike carbs low down. But doesn't feel uncomfortable to drive. I'm pretty happy with it for now. I've spent enough money on RR sessions to warrant changing the chokes to 34mm to see if there is any benefits.

    Wheel bhp as usual

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    Re: Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabblink View Post


    Okay so, after the latest session this is what we have. The new bottom end defiantly helping power now. Torque is still lower than with the bike carbs low down. But doesn't feel uncomfortable to drive. I'm pretty happy with it for now. I've spent enough money on RR sessions to warrant changing the chokes to 34mm to see if there is any benefits.

    Wheel bhp as usual
    looking great! You have picked up around 10/20bhp / ft/lbs across the board!

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    Re: Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabblink View Post


    Okay so, after the latest session this is what we have. The new bottom end defiantly helping power now. Torque is still lower than with the bike carbs low down. But doesn't feel uncomfortable to drive. I'm pretty happy with it for now. I've spent enough money on RR sessions to warrant changing the chokes to 34mm to see if there is any benefits.

    Wheel bhp as usual
    This is with 45 DCOE and 36 mm chokes? For sure, this engine don't need 36 mm chokes. I would try 34mm. I thing it can work with 40 DCOE 32 mm chokes.

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    Pinto power. Bike carbs vs webers.

    Ive spent too much on setups now. I'm happy with how it is for now...

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