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Thread: More brake problems.

  1. #1
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    More brake problems.

    Removed my servo and fitted new (second hand) master cylinder. This is so I can fit twin 40's.
    The master cylinder is of a tandem Mk2 Escort. It has 2 outlets at the front and one at the rear. I plumbed it so the front ones go one to each of the front calipers. (Austin Princess 4 pots)
    Bled the fronts no problem. They work fine, can lock them up if I want.
    The rear seemed to bleed alright, but I don't think they are working. All new in there and recent MOT pass so don't suspect anything wrong in there.
    The pedal seems to press in easy at first, which gives very small amount of braking. Then the pedal goes solid, seemingly against the front calipers. A lot more solid than me getting used to servo.
    Do you think one of the seals has gone on the master cylinder, or is my plumbing wrong?
    Any thoughts or suggestions would be welcome.

    ps during "testing" I discovered that with a bit of heel and toe footwork I can do some pretty impressive burnouts
    Impressed Fred too

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    Racer Decade Plus User Roger Miller's Avatar
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    Re: More brake problems.

    Hi,

    Plumbing sounds ok.

    If its new i would say seals ok.

    I would suggest rebleed.
    BUT
    u need to do fronts and backs at same time
    eg
    bleeders open at same time as pedal depressed.
    An air bleeder is good for this, if air is not in mastercylinder.

    ALSO

    What u have to understand is booster arangment ADDS 2.2 times the force to brake cylinders etc.
    Removing this will make peadl much harder.

    The recomended size master for a non boosted escort is 3/4"
    BUT
    a 0.7" preforms better.
    Take it Easy....

    Roger Miller

    Works-Escorts = http://rsmotorsport.com.au/

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    Re: More brake problems.

    Could b u dont have enough fluid displacement to fully displace the rear slave cylinder pistons, is the auto adjusters working on the rear ?

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    Re: More brake problems.

    Cheers Roger.
    Going to give it a go in a min .
    How come a .7" performs better than a 3/4"?
    Would have thought it was the other way round.

    Went out in car with Fred today. I said it still smells of rubber in here from those burnouts.
    He said it's not that, the soles of my trainers are melting.

    Gets pretty hot in passenger footwell from the exhaust.

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    Re: More brake problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJR
    Cheers Roger.

    Went out in car with Fred today. I said it still smells of rubber in here from those burnouts.
    He said it's not that, the soles of my trainers are melting.

    Gets pretty hot in passenger footwell from the exhaust.
    My car does the same but it's all good when you are on the way back from the chip shop

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    Re: More brake problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_G
    My car does the same but it's all good when you are on the way back from the chip shop
    Reckon you could cook them in mine.
    .
    Right, I've tried bleeding as you said Roger. No joy
    Pretty sure the seal is shot.
    .
    Roger,(or anyone else) can you confirm that a single .7" or .75" will work Austin Princess 4 pots on the front and Capri rears as well?
    If you can, I will buy new and be done with it.
    Beginning to regret going for twin 40's as it is costing a fortune, and I'm not at the stage where I can fit them yet.
    I will keep at it though

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    Re: More brake problems.

    I had a VW Varient master cylinder on mine when I had all standard brake setup. Worked well. I now have BMW 4pots on the front and sierra discs on the rear, I ended up using a BMW 5 series master cylinder to get the job done. There was quite along thread on the subject on the old forum board.

    I will get the sizes off the mastercylinder if u like.

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    Re: More brake problems.

    I remember the thread well, and remember your posts on BMW master cylinders too.

    I know that the master cylinder I have is up to the job. Just that one of the seals has gone.
    I ask about the single outlet master cylinder as I can fit a remote resevoir, for extra room for carbs.
    I could get another Mk2 master cylinder I suppose, but not 100% sure on space for carbs.
    Thanks for the reply.

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    Racer Decade Plus User Roger Miller's Avatar
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    Re: More brake problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by DJR
    Cheers Roger.
    Going to give it a go in a min .
    How come a .7" performs better than a 3/4"?
    Would have thought it was the other way round.

    Went out in car with Fred today. I said it still smells of rubber in here from those burnouts.
    He said it's not that, the soles of my trainers are melting.

    Gets pretty hot in passenger footwell from the exhaust.
    A bigger master cylinder means more fluid goes to brakes, with less travel.
    BUT
    MORE pressure [by ya boot] is needed to achieve same result.

    Sizes for relevent brake systems is in pics
    pic 1


    pic 2
    In above pic u have upper cylinder, I believe from your discription. This a little unique, in that front half, of cylinder does? front brakes.
    Conversely of rear [is right hand side of pic]

    This follows your theory of saying rears not good as this goes in it compresses spring in center and then comes up against front cylinder actuation assembly.
    So ..........if air or seals in rear section are kaput not much brakes to rear.

    U can always check by pressing pedal with a brake drum off and see if drums are expanding etc.

    NOTE NON servo is either 3/4" 0r 0.7" in attached pics there.

    PIC 3 is from english MK2 WSM
    pic 3




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    Works-Escorts = http://rsmotorsport.com.au/

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    Re: More brake problems.

    Cheers Roger
    I was confused because I was referring to single piston master cylinder and you were referring to tandem.
    I have a kaput tandem 0.7 and was hoping to fit a good 0.75 single (space issues).
    Still debating which route to take. Probably get existing master cylinder refurbed or replaced, as I know it will work my brakes.

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    Re: More brake problems.

    single system to drive both front and rear brakes ? Not very safe. A tandem system fits no problem here's some pics of the BMW master i used.




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    Racer Decade Plus User Roger Miller's Avatar
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    Re: More brake problems.

    Ceaig,

    What size is bore on that one?
    Take it Easy....

    Roger Miller

    Works-Escorts = http://rsmotorsport.com.au/

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    Re: More brake problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVader
    single system to drive both front and rear brakes ? Not very safe. A tandem system fits no problem here's some pics of the BMW master i used.
    Thanks for the pics
    Where will you put the trumpets and filters though?

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