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Thread: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

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    Pole Position Decade Plus User freddy686868's Avatar

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    Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    I just thought i would make a basic guide to fitting an rx8 gearbox to a ford engine in a classic ford. This guide is to fit an 6 speed rx8 box in my mk2 escort rally car that has a mk5 rs2k 16v engine along with a group 4 tunnel. Engines cars and x members may make fitting slightly different but the principals are the same.


    To fit the gearbox you will need


    rx8 gearbox 5 or 6 speed box
    rx8 slave cylinder, clutch arm and release bearing
    an adaptor plate (that i can supply)
    2l of ford fully synthetic motorcraft 75/90w oil (recommended as the best oil to use)
    X2 counter sunk m10 bolts
    X10 cap head m10 bolts
    Your original prop shortened and an rx8 end fitted (i use BAR Props, Neath South Wales)
    an old or new set of anti tramp bars and bushes
    3mm steel plate
    Some fabrication skills to make a gearbox mount




    If you already have a type 9 fitted in you car the conversion will be pretty straight forward as you use all the same clutch, flywheel and starter motor. You original prop normally needs shortening by around 2" though.


    Which gearbox? 5 or 6 speed?


    This is up to the individual really but i would recommend the 6 speed for an n/a engine as they have better/closer ratios to make the most of the power. Like wise for the 5 speed to use with a big v8 or a turbo engine as the ratios are longer and more suited to big torque engines. It is also rumoured that the 5 speed box is stronger.


    Is it the same fitting a 5 and 6 speed?


    In a quick answer yes. They have the same bellhousing pattern the gearsticks come up in the same places. They are also the same overall length too.


    Clutch. Hydraulic or cable?


    I would recommend going hydraulic really despite the extra cost of the pedal box there are no draw backs really. The clutch is lighter, self adjusting and makes the car much easier to live with. People have converted the clutches to cable but i haven't got any photos of this. It doesn't sound too hard but a lot of effort when there is an easier option though.


    Pros and cons of the rx8 box


    The pros to the box are they are stronger than the type 9 gearbox, easier to find and cheaper to buy. There will still be more ending up in the breakers for years to come too. That is before you mention the slick gear shift. It has a shorter and slicker throw standard than the type 9 with a rose jointed quick shift. Along with a hydraulic clutch it make the car that much easier to drive. From 2nd to 5th gear the ratios are almost spot on the same as a tran x type 9's 1st to 4th gear which is a £1500 kit plus bearings and a donor box it is nearly 2k. All this as standard for £50-£200. The gears and syncros are also a lot bigger than the type 9 ones. Right now the cons. First gear on the 6 speed is pretty short depending on what final drive you have you might not even need to use it, unless you need it for hill starts or very tight corners. Ect ect. It is also a tight fit in an escort auto box. I haven't heard off anyone who has fitted it in a standard tunnel yet either.











    Fitting the gearbox


    First up you will need to offer up your adaptor plate to the engine and the starter motor.





    You will then need to bolt the box to the adaptor plate and use the dowels in the adaptor plate kit to center up the input shaft with the spigot bearing








    The next step is to make a rear gearbox mount. I welded in two threaded 5 mm plates into the reinforcement brace in the escort tunnel as i had painted the inside of the car and didn't want to burn the paint off. It is also in the perfect place to weld a mount to a bolt on plte on the gearbox.





    Here you can see the captive bar tacked into the brace.





    Here is my gearbox mount used making 3mm plate and a pair of cut up anti tramp bars along with the bushes. Depending on how solidly you mount the gearbox will affect how much gearbox noise you will get in the cabin.





    The position of the gear stick comes right up where the type 9 stick does.





    This one is to show the size difference between type 9 and the rx8 box





    This photo shows that even though the splines are the same on the rx8 and the type 9 box the outside diameter is bigger on the rx8 prop end. This is why you need to change to the rx8 end. There was a 'mod'/bodge going round that you would just change the oil seal and use the type 9 smaller diameter prop end but this is seriously wrong. If you use this bodge the prop end will not be supported by the sleeve in the tail housing and will cause the bearings or gearbox casing to fail.





    This photo shows how much too long the original rx8 prop is. Which is a shame as the carbon prop is nice and light.





    These photos shows my rx8/ atlas axle prop fitted








    Here is a link to my build thread of my rally car if you want to check how the box is holding up or need any more information on fitting an rx8 gearbox.


    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthre...276802&page=28

    This is also a handy thread for information on the conversion too

    http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?t=500016


    Reference photos


    Type 9 clutch and spigot bearing fitted on rx8 box





    6 speed rx8 box





    5 speed rx8 box


    Last edited by freddy686868; 23-03-2016 at 22:11.

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)



    You can also get quickshifts too if your serious


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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    which box would you recommend 5sp or 6sp
    when you say 6sp is short 1st, is it s bad as the type9 thats my main reason to swap out the type9

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    ok think of it as a 5 speed close ratio box with quick shift if you ignore first. Were as the Type 9 is effectively an old 4 speed with poor shift if you ignore first


    I have also been looking at shortening the carbon prop. The issue seems to be to get the end out you need to chop the inserted length off which removes about 6 inches. seems the work involved negate the benefits what a shame. I will keep at it and see what investigation brings up.
    Last edited by wildo105e; 24-03-2016 at 11:14.

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Quote Originally Posted by KENNETH View Post
    which box would you recommend 5sp or 6sp
    when you say 6sp is short 1st, is it s bad as the type9 thats my main reason to swap out the type9
    2nd gear in the 6 speed is the pretty much the same as the tran x first in the ype 9 so just call that your 1st and pretend you have a dog leg ZF box ;P. The first gear is as bad as the type 9 too, but like i say that doesn't matter.

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Quote Originally Posted by wildo105e View Post
    ok think of it as a 5 speed close ratio box with quick shift if you ignore first. Were as the Type 9 is effectively an old 4 speed with poor shift if you ignore first


    I have also been looking at shortening the carbon prop. The issue seems to be to get the end out you need to chop the inserted length off which removes about 6 inches. seems the work involved negate the benefits what a shame. I will keep at it and see what investigation brings up.
    i really wanted to run a carbon prop too but it really is a pain in the arse to try and get sorted.

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Quote Originally Posted by freddy686868 View Post
    i really wanted to run a carbon prop too but it really is a pain in the arse to try and get sorted.
    I've just had the carbon prop done, had to shorten the metal sections at each end the loose enough length and have a English axle flange put on

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    More details please, what was the start/end length, what car, who did it? I am looking to put one in an anglia, looks like my gearbox rear to diff flange is approx 1100mm.

    Taking out 200mm, is that enough to chop one end off, clean off the carbon tube and then rebond into the remaining tube? If so, who can do this?
    1968 Ford Anglia 1.7 Puma engine/Escort front/5 Link rear/RX8 box
    http://www.Anglia1968.weebly.com

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Quote Originally Posted by nik_plant View Post
    I've just had the carbon prop done, had to shorten the metal sections at each end the loose enough length and have a English axle flange put on
    Have you got any photos? And how close did you weld to the carbon fibre?

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Quote Originally Posted by nik_plant View Post
    I've just had the carbon prop done, had to shorten the metal sections at each end the loose enough length and have a English axle flange put on
    Have you got any photos? And how close did you weld to the carbon fibre?

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Great info there, will read again..

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    I can't remember how to upload the photos on here.
    there not a lot of metal left after taking 15 MM out of each end, done by jw engineering in beaxleyheath Kent.

    few bits to look out for when bolting to a pinto with rs sump.
    -the bottom two bolt holes need to be drilled out and countersunk so you can bolt into the sump.
    - an extra hole needs to be drilled and taped to bolt through next to were the clutch cable would have been
    - with my clutch there wasn't enough clearance so I've had to mod the clutch fork and pivot mounting to get the extra clearance
    - starter won't clear the rs sump and mount on the plate so will either need to trim the sump or the starter.

    anything else I come across I will post up and try and sort some pictures 👍

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    Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)



    Just been in the garage and thought I would add these for ref. Measured total prop length as 1267mm. Not sure if the pics will show but where the fittings are bonded in they seem to bulge out

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    Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    How much was it to sort the prop cheers for the info :-)

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Quote Originally Posted by ugg10 View Post
    More details please, what was the start/end length, what car, who did it? I am looking to put one in an anglia, looks like my gearbox rear to diff flange is approx 1100mm.

    Taking out 200mm, is that enough to chop one end off, clean off the carbon tube and then rebond into the remaining tube? If so, who can do this?
    just had another look and the rear joint seems to sit about 110mm into the carbon tube so plenty of scope to i think to get 200mm off. who could do this i do not know yet

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    The xe plate is now perfect. Luke has just tested it for me.


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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    And the 2.8i capri /2.9 boa bob cosworth v6 engine.


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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Last but not least the 1.7 puma/1.6 zetec se sigma plate.



    A rover v8 plate is in the pipeline too.

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Great guide

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Hay dude looking good, showing a customer your mk2 the other day and he mentioned a rx8 box, and now your guide just helped me rite out, :Thumb:

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Quote Originally Posted by rwd2ltrfiesta View Post
    Hay dude looking good, showing a customer your mk2 the other day and he mentioned a rx8 box, and now your guide just helped me rite out, :Thumb:
    No worries. Glad i could help.

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Do you have adaptor plate for the honda k series engine ????

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Quote Originally Posted by rs1600 View Post
    Do you have adaptor plate for the honda k series engine ????
    I don't at the moment sorry. If i had a gearbox to copy and 5 people interested i could make them as that would cover the start up and design costs of the new plate. Hope that helps. John.

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Hi
    Do you have adaptor plates for Zetec 2L backtop still available ?

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Just one point could you sleeve a type nine prop up to the bigger diameter of the rx8 prop?
    Hexham and District Motorclub

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Just to add in again about the carbon props, on trigs escort estate thread in restorations he shortened the carbon prop quite easily looking at the rx8 prop they look very similar could be still on the cards and at £40 a pop.

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Freddy - can you pm me cause I Carnt pm you -noobie

    what starter did you use with st170 1.8 zetec flywheel and rx8 6 speed box

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    Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Got my carbon prop shortened and new atlas uj for £165 in Kent seems ok so far :-)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnd444 View Post
    Freddy - can you pm me cause I Carnt pm you -noobie

    what starter did you use with st170 1.8 zetec flywheel and rx8 6 speed box
    i don't run a zetec i run the i4 engine but i think the zetec boys use a pinto starter. Hope that helps. john

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    Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    You will want a Sierra cvh or dohc lrs707 if it's a Zetec flywheel.


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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Hi all,

    Does anyone know what master cylinder to use for a Mondeo 2.0 zetec clutch with the standard RX-8 slave cylinder? I have just bought a car with this setup that is using a 0.7 master cylinder and the clutch makes grating noise when I depress the pedal the last couple of inches. I have been told it should be smaller to reduce the movement of the clutch fork but was hoping someone may have the same setup and be able to let me know what size works best.

    Cheers,
    David

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    Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Fit a pedal stop ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Quote Originally Posted by alladdin View Post
    Fit a pedal stop ?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I had thought about that but assumed that fitting the correct size parts would be better. If it doesn't make a difference to anything then I'll happily go that route.

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    if you have a pedal box then choices are limited but next size is .625

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Quote Originally Posted by alladdin View Post
    if you have a pedal box then choices are limited but next size is .625

    Yeah, I've had a look online and seen that. I'll give it a go and hope for the best. Thanks

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    The clutch sounds to be going over centre due to too much travel. As Alladdin rightly says its much easier to fit a pedal stop than swap the master cylinder, not a five min job on a bias box.

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Quote Originally Posted by David1980 View Post
    I had thought about that but assumed that fitting the correct size parts would be better. If it doesn't make a difference to anything then I'll happily go that route.
    You may match the master cyl. to the slave to replicate the Mazda set-up but the pedal ratio could be different so with a smaller cylinder you may be reducing fluid capacity transfer to keep the slave happier but the pedal could over or under 'drive' the master piston so back to square one?

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Quote Originally Posted by katana View Post
    You may match the master cyl. to the slave to replicate the Mazda set-up but the pedal ratio could be different so with a smaller cylinder you may be reducing fluid capacity transfer to keep the slave happier but the pedal could over or under 'drive' the master piston so back to square one?
    Balls, I hadn't even thought about the difference in the pedal movement. I've just googled a bit further and am going to try and measure the movement on the clutch fork and pedal to figure out what ratio I need. If all that is too complicated for me then I'm gonna try 0.625 and hope for the best. If that fails, then back to 0.7 and a pedal stop. Wish me luck.

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    Re: Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    Quote Originally Posted by Forest_rallying View Post
    The clutch sounds to be going over centre due to too much travel. As Alladdin rightly says its much easier to fit a pedal stop than swap the master cylinder, not a five min job on a bias box.
    Trying to push my skills as bit as I'm a DIYer but will do a bit more research and may give the swap a go. If not, a pedal stop it is.

    Thanks

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    Rx8 5/6 speed gearbox conversion to ford engine (zetec,I4,pinto and x flow)

    I wouldn't worry about pedal ratio it's a constant for you.
    You already have it working and know what's needed to change from what you have now.


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