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Thread: independant rear sussy

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    Bodger

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    independant rear sussy

    My dads designed and started to build a twin wishbone sistem for my car as a wee project for himself to keep his retierd ass from going insane lol ive not got mutch confidence in the idea as ive never seen it done exep on his m8s mg midget and a morris minor was just wondering why ive not seen this done on any fords has any 1 done it?

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    World Champion Decade Plus User RChambers's Avatar

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    Re: independant rear sussy

    Most independant suspension system for Escorts (I'm assuming thats what you have?) are crap and the live axle is usually a better bet. A decent double wishbone setup would be the ideal setup though so I'd be interested in seeing some photos of the project as it progresses

    She's built like a Steakhouse, but handles like a Bistro

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    Re: independant rear sussy

    so far he has a cage with a siera diff in it and the 2 bottom wishones sitting on his garage floor thats his accomplishment for the last 2 weeks lol i told him if he hacks up my boot and back seats and never finishes the project not unlike his europa mk2 jag porch 928 and rx7 he was buying me a mk1 escort and leaving it to fuck alone :P

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    Spanner Monkey Fatgadget's Avatar

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    Re: independant rear sussy

    Ought to be an interesting conversion this one.

    Here is how Fiat did it on their fabulous 131 Abarth. A car that had the measure of the Escorts on tarmac during the 70's

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    Way too much free time Decade Plus User Retromotorsport's Avatar
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    Re: independant rear sussy

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatgadget
    Ought to be an interesting conversion this one.

    Here is how Fiat did it on their fabulous 131 Abarth. A car that had the measure of the Escorts on tarmac during the 70's
    Thats a "Chapman Strut" and not double wishbone, it has some built in problems which is why Chapman scrapped it after the Elans, it changes camber in travel, and under accel the rear tyres tend to run in the inside tyre edge (like you have a bicycle tyre on there leaving a 2" wide black line) and under braking you get the reverse..... that said its excellent in roll, as the - camber increases on the outside tyre, and the + camber increases on the inside tyre when the body rolls, thus keeping the wheels perpendicular to the road surface. ideally with Chapman Strut suspension you want the inner links to pick up at the opposite wheel, which minimises the camber the changes.

    An upper and lower wishbone set up is the best of suspensions, but the only advantage of it is unsprung weight as a live axle by its nature will always keep the tyres perpendicular to the road.

    As for doing it to an Escort..... why?

    Lets look at 2 Mk2's..........

    Craig Rainer (maverick) mk2 380bhp cossie, live axle... is only a second of Steve Scotts 500bhp+ WRC Escort lap times,

    Colin McCraes mk2 .... well lets just see what it can do in a normal drivers hands against a live axle car. As Colin is in the upper class of rally drivers.

    If I was to do a double wishbone rear in a Mk1/2/3/4/5/6 Escort or Focus it would also have a Hewland Transaxle in there, popcorn:

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    Spanner Monkey Fatgadget's Avatar

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    Re: independant rear sussy

    As for doing it to an Escort..... why?
    Despite the technical shortcomings you mention of this project, I think purely from a bling point of view it’s a clear winner!

    No matter how well executed a linked solid axle on an Escort these days, it doesn’t raise eyebrows anymore.And who knows,maybe Yonners Dad might come up with an elegant solution to the pitfalls you pointing out.For all we know he is one of those latent boffins who was just waiting for his retirement for the time to put his ideas into practice.

    Let’s face it, conversions are not all about achieving something technically superior. A whole host of other factors come into play: It could just be a challenge or maybe to prove to oneself and to others that it can be done, or just wanting to be different.
    Those are things to be encouraged IMO.

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    Racer Decade Plus User dazzle's Avatar

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    Re: independant rear sussy

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatgadget
    Despite the technical shortcomings you mention of this project, I think purely from a bling point of view it’s a clear winner!

    No matter how well executed a linked solid axle on an Escort these days, it doesn’t raise eyebrows anymore.And who knows,maybe Yonners Dad might come up with an elegant solution to the pitfalls you pointing out.For all we know he is one of those latent boffins who was just waiting for his retirement for the time to put his ideas into practice.

    Let’s face it, conversions are not all about achieving something technically superior. A whole host of other factors come into play: It could just be a challenge or maybe to prove to oneself and to others that it can be done, or just wanting to be different.
    Those are things to be encouraged IMO.
    I like what you've said there and I agree with you BUT the one point I think you may have missed, is why do something like that, when it could well end up 'handling' worse than the standard set up?? Surely you don't just want something that 'looks bling' but doesn't work??
    If it was bling you wanted, then I don't think an old skool escort is where you should be looking

    This is, of course IMHO
    Cheers

    Dazzle


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    Re: independant rear sussy

    I agree with some points that Fatgadget has raised... infact most big leaps in car design have come from clubman racers ... hillclimbers in particular.

    The Terrapin, Domag, Gould, all cars from little sheds and now produced in numbers. Rally cars, Andy Burtons Monte Carlo and Pug.....

    Suspensions ... Mallock, Chapman, Mumford, Bastow, Olley, Watt... etc.

    As for 6 link rears not raising eyebrows... dunno most people who see the rears I do for racetrack take a second and third look.... and its nothing new, just not applied to Escorts.

    But the end result is all i'm interested in, improvements is all i look for, and as such in my opinion its not worth the hassle unless you go to the Hewland Transaxle end.... if you have to cut big holes fill em with something worth filling them with.... also another downer, the standard Cossie Sierra diff is shite if you have grip and power,

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    Way too much free time Decade Plus User Retromotorsport's Avatar
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    Re: independant rear sussy

    this is what i would be doing

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    Re: independant rear sussy

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatgadget
    Despite the technical shortcomings you mention of this project, I think purely from a bling point of view it’s a clear winner!

    No matter how well executed a linked solid axle on an Escort these days, it doesn’t raise eyebrows anymore.And who knows,maybe Yonners Dad might come up with an elegant solution to the pitfalls you pointing out.For all we know he is one of those latent boffins who was just waiting for his retirement for the time to put his ideas into practice.

    Let’s face it, conversions are not all about achieving something technically superior. A whole host of other factors come into play: It could just be a challenge or maybe to prove to oneself and to others that it can be done, or just wanting to be different.
    Those are things to be encouraged IMO.
    im witht thsi guy :P

    basicly my dad likes spending sunday afternoons with me making stuff and fixing bits on old cars he got the idea from his friend who has done it with an mg midget track car and thought it wud be a fun project so we are doing it even tho it might be a waste of time so is doing everyting els on old cars but we do it becase we enjoy it and some of us are lucky enuf and talkented enuf to do it for a living

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    Re: independant rear sussy

    Good on ya
    Just make sure you keep us posted with picspopcorn:
    Its good that everyone on here has got an oppinion

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    Re: independant rear sussy

    I'm in no way knocking you for doing it... and like I said.. lots of good things come out of small garages.

    I only answered your question as to why you havnt seen many before.

    And i was just including my ideas on IRS for Escorts

    And as said... we want pics.

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    Re: independant rear sussy

    Thats what i meen, everyones got an opinion so you can take it all on board and pick the best bits
    Or just try something completly original.

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    Re: independant rear sussy

    Serious question for you Gary...

    What is the advantage of using the transaxle rather than doing the "normal" thing of inline engine/box up front and just hanging the diff in the back?

    I can think of 2 benefits off the top of my head... Weight distribution (but do you really want the weight all that way back? With the engine as far back as in your picture, the front mounted gearbox would be pretty much bang in the middle of the car, yes?

    Also, like you once told me, the transaxles already have pick-up points for the wishbones, which i can see would simplify things a lot for you...

    Other than that, is it worthwhile? I'm thinking along the lines of a WRC type rear end, where everything (diff, bottom wish bone, the lot) is hung on a cradle which picks up off the rollcage via just a few bolts... A few seconds with the nut-gun and you've got the whole rear end on the deck. Would this be a bit of a bitch with a transaxle?

    I know we've been round in circles discussing IRS several times before, but it still intrigues me to know if it'd work or not.

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    Way too much free time Decade Plus User Retromotorsport's Avatar
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    Re: independant rear sussy

    the trans axle is held on by 6-8 bolts... gear change in seconds.. ok minutes, and diffs are quick to.

    weight distrbution would be really good, with the engine back the gear leaver would be behind you... you ever driven a TVR... T5 box... not quite like the Sierra change.

    Also by going IRS your in class A so you may as well go for it big style..

    Have a look at Rod Birley's old Honda Prelude....

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    Re: independant rear sussy

    i was thinking of doing this,graft the whole section in behind the seats and put a turbo on it,a lot lighter than an atlas and cossie engine and same output,zcars do some thing similer with minis but this would have wishbones and no need for the expensive transaxle



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    Re: independant rear sussy

    Gearbox in the rear is better for balance but not changing direction.

    The only downside to transaxles like the hewland is that sooner or later you are going to damage a diff or gearbox, with a transaxle, if the diff breaks up it takes the gearbox with it and vice verse

    There is a guy I work with who has a tarmac rally car, based on a Seat Ibiza but not a lot left.
    2.0 16v renault motor with turbo, barrel throttles and full antilag set up, 480hp without the restrictor

    Quaife sequential 6 speed, rear mounted with Carbon prop, then a small torque tube back to a BMW M5 LSD, which is heavy but pretty much bomb proof and plenty of ratios to choose from too

    Bit of a comprimise but with a safeguard to some very expensive kit

    Its basically a 2wd WRC car so can run much lighter than a WRC and on tarmac is quicker.

    I`ll get some pictures off him and post them up, it is very trick

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    Racer Decade Plus User dazzle's Avatar

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    Re: independant rear sussy

    We always like piccies
    Cheers

    Dazzle


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    Re: independant rear sussy

    Just had a look at Central Blast Cleaning's new project today at the historic show. Mk2 Escort with a duratec Engine pushed right in the cockpit aka mr McRae's Escort with Suburu Gp N rear end. Looks good. The missus liked the colour, bless her.

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