Good work, some top diagnostic skills there and what people dont realise is that you are similtaneously trouble shooting for other racers over the phone. I think you saved us a load of work and headaches today too
Good work, some top diagnostic skills there and what people dont realise is that you are similtaneously trouble shooting for other racers over the phone. I think you saved us a load of work and headaches today too
Sierra cosworth turbo race car
QMN saloon car championship
RETRO Motorsport
not much progress to show today, a work college came over and repaired about a dozen chips in the screen, after which i stuck some new decals on, i went to change the clear film over the headlamp lenses because it was pretty grotty, and both glasses basically fell to bits, so que fitting two new headlamps, and a few other bits of tidying, stil got quite a few other jobs to do, but its looking a lot better
I know theres not much space but i'd like to see a pic of the whole car so we can see the new ride height..
Looks pretty low from that pic.
Sierra cosworth turbo race car
QMN saloon car championship
RETRO Motorsport
that gives a clue, i cant jack it up under the diff from the side of the car any more, the body of my bradbury jack wont clear the sills, niether can i get it under the front x/member, so if i want a whole end of the car up in the air it needs one jack either side
Last edited by Graham; 19-03-2012 at 08:28.
Yeah, thats lower alright lol
Sierra cosworth turbo race car
QMN saloon car championship
RETRO Motorsport
is it me or is the back of the car on the wonk?Originally Posted by Graham
Cars, because you can't get enough kicks out of walking fast.
some of it may be camera angle but yes the o/s quarter has been squashed down
that's a shame, was hoping for a masterful plan on making the n/s edge of the wing higher up, clever aerodynamics
Cars, because you can't get enough kicks out of walking fast.
its already higherthat's a shame, was hoping for a masterful plan on making the n/s edge of the wing higher up, clever aerodynamics
what i might do though is remake the end plates so its a bit flatter and will cut the high speed drag
i remember you saying it was really noticeable at thruxton, so like you say it could be more drag than downforce at it's current angle.its already higher
what i might do though is remake the end plates so its a bit flatter and will cut the high speed drag
Cars, because you can't get enough kicks out of walking fast.
over the winter i sold a fuel pump to a mate, it was to be my spare pump, but i couldnt find it so he actually had the one off my car, eventually i found teh spare and fitted it, but as its a different pump doesnt fit as neat, then i found i didnt like some of the hose and came over all safety conscious,
shit load of money later i have this lot, which will replace the high pressure plumbing from main pump to regulator on return line, i'll prob change the rest at some point, but money is deffo talking and push fitting on my tank and swirl pot dont easily lend themselves to areoquip
righto update time,
stephen came over friday night so we spent all day saturday working through a shed load of finishing touches, shifting gear, cars and trailers,
a couple of the jobs was to fit new pads all round as ebc had made me a set of their new orange stuff to try out, change the brake fluid, to tidy the back of the car up, i stripped an outer skin from a rear bumper cut it down and attached it to the car, i have to say im well impressed with how much smarter it looks, i had to chuck a new set of headlamps in, as when i tried to peel off the protective film which was looking very dirty and scabby, all the glass came off with it, as the film was all that held the glass together, i made some new end plates for the rear spoiler so as to lay it over more, and improve the areo a bit and reduce drag slightly, and spanner check the suspension, track it up and give it a general clean.
brands was surprisingly warm and sunny for the time of year, heading out into practise i was a bit nervous to say the least, with a full grid of 32 cars and a bout 28 of them being way faster than mine, it wasnt the time to find out the ride height changes had screwed the handling or that the new pads wouldnt work, with no particular plan i hit the track, the engine pulled ok, although felt sluggish, then i remembered its still on the cobbled up 3.9 diff not the preferred 4.27 so i forgot about that and got on with it, sort of, two things occurred the car felt solid like someone had upped the spring rates massively without me knowing, secondly that the orange pads certainly delivered what was promised they had massively more bite than the yellows that were in there, so the decision was to do a few sensible laps and then take things as they come, a few laps later it smelt like the car was on fire! remembering i had been told that when first used the pads might go "away" then come back when cooled off, i pitted, to let them cool and check nothing was actually on fire, Stephen checked it out and took some tyre temps, temps were weird! outside edge of the n/s/f which is always hottest was some cold, and i mean cold 14 degrees C!!! ready to go out again the session was cancelled after someone went off big time. which meant i had a grand total of 3 laps under my belt, and qualified with a pedestrian 1.00.1 sec lap, in actual fact i was surprised i'd actually gone that fast! with such a short session most of the field was way off the pace, although jezz was a very notable exception
back in the paddock i didnt do much, afterall i'd only done 3 laps! i did knock the shocks off a bit to soften the car, pondered why it now feels too stiff on the same springs and why the oil pressure seemed a tad low, and started recall thinking it seemed to of dropped of little by little the last couple of races last year, but at the same time not being totally sure that actually was the case.
, class wise i was laying 3rd out of 4, bill richards and gavins blisteringly quick 205 ahead of me and a bmw mini behind, i was already pretty sure i wouldnt catch either ahead of me, lining up for race one i spotted another e30 a bit further up the grid, it looked like a tidy road car on trackday tyres but i knew it had 6 cylinder 3.2 m3 lump, could my lighter car slick shod car make up a 100bhp deficit, not that it mattered he was in a different class, i had to stay ahead of the mini and out of trouble,
there wasnt much to report about the race, id started, 26th out of 32, and finished 23rd, more as a result of finishing than anything else, my pace was almost identical to the other e30, more things notable about the car though, the brakes really were much sharper, its now easy to lock up, the car still felt too stiff, the front end in particular, just rather vague and refusing to have any bite to the turn in, also of concern was the oil pressure, i was seeing 50ish psi once hot, and at times the gauge flickered as if i had oil surge which i cant have, strangely despite pressure being lower than normal at high revs at the end of the race i still had 30+psi at idle, which is normalStephen measured tyre temps again, they were odd again, in that despite practically no camber outsides were cold! not having any other springs with me, i decided to try and make the suspension more a bit more, backed the dampers off further, softened the roll bar and lifted the ride height up a bit, the theory being more body roll might work the tyres more.
did it work, well sort of, race two, the car felt a bit better, though still didnt really turn in and pushing through clearways it would gently wash out, i was doing the same lap times as the previous race, which doesnt sound great, but it was last race of the day so it was a fair bit cooler, and with the engine now down to 45psi under load i knocked some revs off, so i guess the same lap time was a great improvement, post race scruitineering saw the car weighed it came out at a very lardy 1014kg with me in it, i know im carrying some excess baggage myself but that still makes the car 918kgs, , that means its put on quite a few kgs over the last two years, glass screen complete with heavy rubbers, rear bumper, alternator etc etc, hmm that rear bumper might be coming off again! other things, the cobbled up diff seems to be making nasty noises, and i havnt quite got my head around why the car now seems so stiff, it has been suggested its on the bump stops but im sure it isnt, lowering a car usually makes them suffer more body roll, unless in this case its dropped the COG so much its had the reverse effect, one thing that its clear is that using the ecu to control water temp did stop the engine getting overly cool, though it was still a bit on the cool side, and post race checking the battery still shows 100% charge so the electrical power saving is deffo worthwhile,
meanst while lots of pondering is needed as to why im sort on oil pressure at high revs but lost nothing at low revs, i think i sussed it one the way home, i'll report back when i get to check it out, but i dont actually think the issue is bearing wear IMHO if teh bearings wore so much in a single race to rob 15+psi of pressue im sure the engine would of chucked a rod out of the block or somint, because although i knocked the revs back i still pushed it to 8k early in the race and still over 7 at the end
Last edited by Graham; 26-03-2012 at 22:29.
Dont be keeping us in suspense, what was up with the oil pressure. Great to see you back out racing again, even if you have a few teething problems with the car.
To finish first, you must first finish
Good write up Graham,its a shame the ride height changes didnt work out but im sure you will sort it
to tell the truth mark as of 5 mins ago i dunno!
what i thought possibly happened was that the hose from the bottom of the oil tank to the pump had de-laminated internally and was restricting the oil flow as i cant think of any other reason why i would have normal oil pressure at idle on a stinking hot engine at the end of a race but low pressure at high revs, but i've just cut that hose wide open and theres nothing wrong with it, so whats going on?
im pretty certain if the bearings or the pump pressure rotors were shot i'd see low oil pressure all the time, its now got me wondering if the pickup mesh in the sumps blocked and the sumps actually filling with oil over the coarse of a race so the oil in the tank is actually running low, dammed sure it would be leaking oil if that were the case, i guess im just going to have to pull everything apart and check it
Could it be something as simple as a dodgy/blocked oil filter Graham
that an arf look like a hard core racer now at that stance
fingers crossed 4 ya mate
i think the ride height changes will work given more work, tbh i only just made the season and im close to throwing in the towel already as when i add up what i really need to spend to make everything good and proper its just not going to happen not this side of 2020 anyway!
doubt it TBH, the filters only been on there a couple of meetings and they dont clog so fast as to notice a pressure difference between the two races,
the trouble is entering races or even test/track days is a dammed expensive way to find out if you have cured a problem or not
cheers shame it didnt work!that an arf look like a hard core racer now at that stance
fingers crossed 4 ya mate
Could the PRV be acting up?
Graham do you think you would be able to tweak the suspension at Arena Essex not ideal i know but is a very cheap way to try a few things ,if not totally solving the problems it may point you in the right direction?
dont think so, but its possible, between races i did adjust it to increase the pressure, on cold oil in the paddock it made more pressure, i've just pulled the scavenge pipes from the sump, one in particular has a lot of crap all over it, they were cleaned when i replaced the sump gasket mid season last year, the crap is worrying as some of its fairly large metalic pieces
the sump deffo has to come off now
Last edited by Graham; 27-03-2012 at 20:48.
dunno mate, i've never even been there
Oh shoot. Was it magnetic? But you are on to something here and don't need to ponder anymore wether to open up the sump or not. Atleast there were no knocking sound so the crank should be safe.dont think so, but its possible, between races i did adjust it to increase the pressure, on cold oil in the paddock it made more pressure, i've just pulled the scavenge pipes from the sump, one in particular has a lot of crap all over it, they were cleaned when i replaced the sump gasket mid season last year, the crap is worrying as some of its fairly large metalic pieces
the sump deffo has to come off now
great write up fella, makes for good reading
its not dead till it's buried!
T.I.T engineering. "Feel the power!"
if only! i held a magnetic stick close to them and they jumped onto it! there were also hard but non metalic bits toothat you imagined those large metal pieces in the oil
maybe the timing chain has sawn through something, although mechanically the engine sounds spot on
could it possibly be the bits of metal as the cause of the pressure drop as opposed to an affect of? At higher revs as you say, the pressure was dropping, also changing very slowly after you gave the throttle a poke. I'm still certain its the engine strangling itself, as it tries to draw more oil at higher revs, increasing the strength of the vacuum, potentially to the extent of starting to pick things up and clog arteries.
EDIT: By dropping slowly i'm referring to driving up to the collection area, he gave the throttle a jab, the revs hit around 6k, we then continued to pootle up to the collection area, with the pressure rising back to a reasonable level with no revs, but the pressure was rising very slowly, and it took around 30 seconds for the pressure to stop crawling up.
Last edited by stephen bahr; 28-03-2012 at 12:32.
Cars, because you can't get enough kicks out of walking fast.
Dodgy oil pressure gauge or sender/electrics poss?
On the suspension side of things (though im sure youve checked this!) Have you re-calculated the lowering effect on the rest of the geometry (caster, scrub radius etc) as this might be causing a few issues?
the geometry is right, but i've thought about it quite a bit,
my initial impression of the car was the springs were too stiff, i dont think its on the bump stops in anycase i did lift it up a bit, thinking about the race although the car feels too stiff the rear was planted, which i think is key to the case, although the car is dramatically lower, most of the lowering has been done on the rear as it was very tail high, this will of transferred more weight to the rear, effectively making the front lighter and the springs seem stiffer, when i did the adjustment i actually dropped the rear spring rate down a bit, 375 from 400, but i cant remember whats in the front but its going to be either 700 or 800lb so i'll put somethingh softer in the front and go from there
as for the oil issue, gotta look deeper into it, i very much doubt its the gauge (mechanical not electric) as i wouldn't expect it to read different from one race to teh next whilst on track but the same normal pressure in the pits at idle
Last edited by Graham; 29-03-2012 at 17:03.
bit the bullet this morning, and dropped the sump, it looked good, no surprises, and no evidence the engines eaten itself
looking up at the crank same again, no evidence of anything amiss
nothing wrong with the ends, i might even just put them back.
some of the mains are looking rather battered, im guessing the long stroke shortish rods and no crank damper are giving them a hard time, guess i'll have to use a damper if i ever build a longer stroke 2.7, but tbh they dont look that bad, infact they were secondhand when i built the engine!
nought wrong with the oil pump either!
so i'l get it a new set of mains and put it back together and see what the gauge then says, but what ever its says i will know the engines actually ok
good news, sort of, would have been nice in a way to find something obvious so your'd know the cause of your problem.
its not dead till it's buried!
T.I.T engineering. "Feel the power!"
the main thing is it isnt in need of serious surgery, god knows where the metalic bits came from, i guess the could be left overs from the broken crank, dunno where they could of been hiding through it was all cleaned to within an inch of its life before the rebuild.
as the engine should be a goer, before the next meeting, i've now got to take a look at the rear end noise which i recon is a diff bearing, oh and swap some springs
Glad the engine looks ok, i take it the issue cant be top end then?
Are all of your camber settings good now? Sounds like you really need a really nice diff in there, guess that is mega money though so maybe needs to wait a while. Sounds like the front end needs to go a bit softer for sure, I take it the front wont go any lower due to the size of the tyres so a bit softer might help turn in and stop it washing out. I got mine turning in to clearways better by going lower on the front and a tad softer, before that it was really missing the apex and then losing speed down the pit straight.
Sierra cosworth turbo race car
QMN saloon car championship
RETRO Motorsport
i dont think theres an issue in the top end dave, the blocks oil feed to the head a restrictor in it so you cant loose significant amount of pressure through the head, plus it mechanically sounds good, s14's are known for sounding like a bag of nails at the top end, this is anything but.
a decent diff is a grand just for the slipper, without the rest, so yes as you say its going to have to wait,
camber settings are all good, there is in fact not much camber in it at all! tyre temps suggest it wants even less, but i think that just because it wouldnt load up the tyres, as you say the front cant come down any more, tyres will be hard on the inner arches and the tca's sitting at a very silly angle, smaller wheels would be the only way to get it lower, i'll just knock 100-200lb off the front springs and try it.
Last edited by Graham; 01-04-2012 at 10:20.
Good to hear everything is in order.
Would love to see the car on 16s with a fossie diff and some wide fibreglass wings.
Have you considered robbing the post office, they must be millionaires judging by what I've given them in ebay postage this week!
Is the rear arb on now?
Sierra cosworth turbo race car
QMN saloon car championship
RETRO Motorsport
the trouble with 16's (apart from me not having any 16" wheels) is tyre choice isnt great, i've mentioned 16's to dunlop several times and the answer is always DONT, mainly i think because other than radicals there isnt much using them so teh development isnt there, and a lot of the 16's are nearly as tall as my 18's.
rear arb is off as it never benifitted from it being on
I guess the developement with 18s will increase now that the ngtc british touring cars are adopting them. Drivers say they are a lot better than the 17s like mine over a race distance.
Sierra cosworth turbo race car
QMN saloon car championship
RETRO Motorsport
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