The car formally known as 'mint'

[ryan.minshall]

i would whip the head off and get it checked over will save so much more hassle

[Mk2Matt]

I rang Steve at Vulcan today and spoke briefly to him, he thinks bent valve too Anyway, he's agreed to take a look at the head once I've got it off. I need this solved once and for all.

[kierzo-199]

burnt out piston ? snapped ring ?

[alladdin]

if you have a lifter which bleeds down or isnt pumped up, you will get better not worse compression! the reason being the lifter doesnt have enough "adjustment" for it to not to open the valve at all, so it must show some compression, in fact the lift would cut the amount of lift the valves have on overlap which reduces compression readings.

imho, as its rare for a lifter to loose you any compression, and unless your running at a zillion rpm they dont over inflate, plus if you say its a lifter your saying you have had two faulty sets the origonal and the new ones thats exteremly unlikely, so unless you have majorly excessive oil pressure ignore the lifters and look elsewhere, for my money if you look back given the compression readings i never did think the issue was with the lifters.

id of said the issue has to lay either with broken/ very weak valve springs or your have fault with the valves themselves, either as someone else suggested they are cooked up, therefore not always seating, OR some time in its previous life its been buzzed and what you infact have is a valve or two which are just slightly bent and whether they are sealing or not depends on where they sit as regards to rotation on the valve seat,

are you sure about the first part ? why would compression be higher if inlet only opens a little ? and why isnt it pulling air at trumpet. the lifter may not be bad, just a new one that needs a nudge, soaking in a jar of oil always helped the old astra ones.

since compression WAS good, i wouldnt rush the head off just yet.

[dangerousdave]

The astras are useless until they pump up! Literally nothing under cranking for a minute or so, then 1 or 2 pick up and it runs badly for a bit until the others join in! Either that or clipped a valve when rebuilding if the timing was off? That said a bent valve would give a constant low reading wouldn't it not a different one each time?!

[mexicotait]

Id be tempted just to run it and see if you can coax it into life

[Mk2Matt]

Ok, so I've ignored the car for a bit. But I feel I should really try to crack on with it. So what do you recommend I do?

As has been said, I did have good compression on #3 (180psi) before I changed the lifters, so it must be something to do with the lifters. As Graham said, if it had been buzzed in a previous life then valves may be bent - but I would have thought this would have shown up in earlier compression tests?

If I choose to attack the lifters again, what do you think I should do? Remove the inlet lifters for #3 and soak in oil as was suggested above? Or simply just replace with new ones again? Would it be worth doing the exhaust side too?

Cheers all and I appreciate your patience with my lack of mechanical knowledge

[ryan.minshall]

i wouls be tempted to take head off and have a look and get the who thing checked over

[caprimentle]

i'd be tempted to do as mexiotait suggests, thrash the nuts out of it a few times up and down the road and see if it picks up, it might save you a rebuild and i cant see it doing any harm.

if you dont or cant do that then personally i would rip the head off so i could check if the valves are straight.

it would be the proper thing to do.

[Joe-Tait]

Go for a play with someone following then if nothing changes come home a take the head off

Port the head check valves, change the gaskets and head bolts and away back to HT Racing

[mexicotait]

Tbh its running so it cant be too serious
Run it and see what happens
At least youll get to drive it and i thonk you meed something to cheer you up matt

[alladdin]

firstly , yes get it warm give it a thrashing , who knows it may well spark up.

taking the head off is the end game really,next i would try whipping out the followers on no3, squeeze closed in vice and pop into jar of thin oil overnight. they should fill themselves.

[Graham]

next i would try whipping out the followers on no3, squeeze closed in vice and pop into jar of thin oil overnight. they should fill themselves.

i dont see what you would gain, lifters can over pump themselves and if you have one that isnt pumped up it will be noisy as hell

[alladdin]

i dont see what you would gain, lifters can over pump themselves and if you have one that isnt pumped up it will be noisy as hell

i am going on my experiance with astras. it worked. and it doesnt cost money, and not much time.

[Graham]

i am going on my experiance with astras. it worked. and it doesnt cost money, and not much time.

sohc astra's were somewhat different

[mexicotait]

General concensus
Go drive it !!!

[Mk2Matt]

I went a drove it!

Took it out for about an hour and half in total. Popped to the Post Office at 9am to Tax it (exactly 2 years after the last tax ran out).

After about a mile one of the valves began tapping (sounded just like an old Pinto - which ironically is what I removed to have all this fun! ) so kept on going in the hope the lifter would start doing its job - it didn't. I had a good time driving it again though, felt so good after two and a half years!

It went well considering it was only on 3 cylinders the whole time so 25% down on power!

Hopefully taking the head off tomorrow though, I think maybe an oil way is blocked or something

[mexicotait]

Good lad
Keep us informed matt
Ive sent you a pm regarding something else

[Mk2Matt]

Started removing the head today, but a complete lack of motivation means I didn't finish

What I did do though with Dad's help was turn the engine over by hand and physically feel the valves going up and down by putting my fingers into the inlet and exhaust ports. They are going up and down on #3 as well as all of the others. Doesn't rule out them being bent, but they're going up and down. Did my best with the torch on the iPhone to look down the spark plug hole and the top bit of the piston I could see doesn't have a hole in it.

I'll try and finish removing the head one night this week...but more likely next weekend.

What do I need to consider when removing the head to aid refitting it? I can't believe Ford put the sodding head bolts under the cams either!

[ryan.minshall]

on the caps for the cams there should be a number on the out side edge, number 0 will be the exhaust side buy the pulley and then go to 5 and inlet side 6 at the pulley to 9 VERY important to put them with numbers on the out side edge in the right order the head its self is located buy two dowels so easy to fit
just follow the Haynes for a zetec engine and that's a very good Gide, i have done this twice in the last 2 months so if you need a hand let me know

[caprimentle]

good going matt , but i'm not impressed with the lack of pictures , dont you start slacking now

[Mk2Matt]

on the caps for the cams there should be a number on the out side edge, number 0 will be the exhaust side buy the pulley and then go to 5 and inlet side 6 at the pulley to 9 VERY important to put them with numbers on the out side edge in the right order the head its self is located buy two dowels so easy to fit
just follow the Haynes for a zetec engine and that's a very good Gide, i have done this twice in the last 2 months so if you need a hand let me know

Thank you for the reply, but I'm afraid you've lost me on the first bit. Are you talking about the tightening order? I've got a Mondeo Haynes manual so I'll get reading. Since you're a pro, fancy a road trip to Surrey?

good going matt , but i'm not impressed with the lack of pictures , dont you start slacking now

Haha, cheers, I didn't want to get the iPhone oily!

[ryan.minshall]

na in where the caps live and what way around they go, the tightening is you take up the slack starting at the rear making your way forward to the pulleys the torque down in to stages can't remember the settings something like 10nm then 19nm but check the book to be sure. the book does tell you all you need to know, sit on the crapper and have a good read though before attempting it.

[Graham]

I can't believe Ford put the sodding head bolts under the cams either!

unfortunately when designing a twin cam engine if you want the head bolts to be in a sensible position from a sealing perspective, and decent valve and port angles the bolts will almost always end up under the cams!

[Mk2Matt]

What should I be considering with regards to things like the position of the engine? Should I put it to TDC? How do I know where to put the cams for refitting? Newbie questions I know, but I really don't want to feck this up - especially seeing as I'll be paying someone to check the bloody thing over.

Cheers all as always

[caprimentle]

set it at tdc and take lots and lots of pictures, cant go wrong with pictures, pictures of cam angles, pictures of pulley positions loads of stuff for alignment, its what i would do if unsure so you know how it looks when put back together

[ryan.minshall]

you need to put the engine at tdc to start with removing the cams don't need anything special but if your taking the pulleys off you need one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Draper-Exp...0#ht_550wt_905

when putting back on they say to move the engine away from tdc so the valves don't hit when re-installing the cams just turn it away from tdc a bit. once the cams are in you need to line them up with the flat bit of mettle in the kit above (i had to file some powder coat off mine to get it to fit) stick that in the grove at the end of the cams can only do this one way as the slot is of center. If you mess up what cam cam from what side in inlet cam as a lug on the end with the slot for the cam sensor. mate if you need lots of questions i pm you my number if you need to call me if i dont answer leave me a msg or txt.

[Mk2Matt]

Cheers mate, really appreciate it. I'll get myself one of those tools and give it a go I guess.

When you say move it "a bit" roughly how much is a bit? 1/4 turn? 1/8 of a turn?

Cheers all.

[dangerousdave]

Dont forget your cams probably wont line up with the bar as the pulleys are verniers!

[ryan.minshall]

yeah forgot you had verniers, as for turning it it just a a bit about 10mm lol

[Mk2Matt]

Good afternoon all, I've dragged this up from the depths! After some time off from the car because I basically got fed up with it and lost all motivation... not to mention bought a flat too! I decided I ought to crack on! Partly to find out what is actually wrong with it and secondly so I know if I can afford to fix it - solicitors fees and stamp duty costs mental money!

Anyway, here's how the car has sat since May




Cams removed




Then it was time for a cup of tea



Head removed and this is what greeted us. You can see #3 (the one that wasn't firing or having any compression) is a slightly different colour to the rest.





We then turned the engine and checked the bore in #3 and it was perfect from what we could see. No scoring etc. We poured some 5/30 down #2 and #3 as well for good measure to check none leaked out - it all remained, even hours later when we checked again. We did think there may have been an ever ever ever so slight little bit of brown colouring on the edge of the bore on #3 - but the engine has been sat now for a few months.






We did notice though on the head gasket (which was in generally good condition) the size of the holes on the water ways reduced as you went towards the rear of the engine. Why is this? You can see in the first picture below that the water way hole is the same shape as the head's hole, but the next two pics show the reduced pin-prick sized holes.




Here's the bottom of the valves - again you can see clearly that #3 hasn't been working...but has been at some point




Anyway, now the head was off, we thought it looked like it was in generally good order, no clear sign of any problems, but I thought, since we'd gone to the effort of removing it, I wanted Steve @ Vulcan to check it over properly for piece of mind. He lives near by and very kindly offered to pop over and pick it up. He took a look at the bores quickly and agreed they looked fine and then he cast his eye over the head. He tipped the head on its side and poured water into the exhaust ports to test for leaks out of the exhaust valves...and they leaked...all of them... a lot! He's confident that that will be my issue with it not running right, not firing on #3 and not starting well.





So he has taken the head away to have new valves fitted properly etc and generally a check over. The next, and most daunting bit is refitting it all! I'm confident I can physically re-fit the head... but I still have NO idea how to get the cams back in the correct place. Can it be treated like you would with a fresh engine build? There's no tippex marks to work from then?

Cheers all

[ryan.minshall]

nice one mate glad to see your working on her again when you put your cams back in make sure you put the caps back on all the right way the are numbered from 0-9 numbers on the outside of the head, with 0 being the exhaust cam nearest the pulley going up to 4 and the 5on the inlet nearest the pulley going up to 9. But I am sure you know this if you have been following the hynes.

[Mk2Matt]

Cheers Ryan I'm going to get a new head gasket for good measure as well. Which one should I get? My gut feeling is that a genuine Ford one may be best to insure quality, but I don't want to pay over the odds if I don't have to and could just get one from local motor factors.

From the limited pics above, is the gasket I have anything special or just a basic one?

I'm going to buy a new cam belt tensioner spring too since the one I've got looks like it has seen better day.

[jimmy2006]

hi matt it was nice speaking to you yesterday i have used both parts patern parts and genuine i would use ford parts when it comes to cam belts and tension

[Mk2Matt]

Head gasket, cam belt, cam tensioner spring and ST170 inlet manifold O-rings all ordered Got head gasket and cam belt from motor factors in the end - they were half the price of Ford and I simply don't have the cash to be spending THAT much more than I need to.

Ordered this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3804599059...84.m1439.l2649 just now from eBay too so that hopefully the refit isn't too stressful - and local people around this week are more than welcome to come and cast an eye over the proceedings though

[MotorcyclesFish]

Nice one Matt, glad to see it's starting to move again, at least you are familiar with every part of your engine now

[alladdin]

if your cams are timed " non standard" with the vernier wheels then the cam tool wont work. you will either have to put it back std timing or leave wheels as they are and guesstimate if it all looks ok ??

[ryan.minshall]

i have used not ford gasket sets with no problems at all, if you want piece of mind

[dangerousdave]

So long as they are decent brands youll be fine. Payen gaskets can be iffy sometimes, gates/dayco/contitech/kyb for a belt kit are all decent brands and some manufacture the oem bits for the manufacturers.

[evans2822]

That should sort you out this has certainly put you through the ringer lol