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Thread: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

  1. #521
    Pit Crew Decade Plus User GavinR's Avatar
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Quote Originally Posted by wildo105e View Post
    very much lighter.
    Alloy block is standard on the Duratec as well as a lot of modern engines
    An alloy block for a Pinto / Cosworth is £4,680 from Burtons but saves 22kg over an original cast iron block, so I assume a Duratec will be similarly lighter than the Cosworth
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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User GavinR's Avatar
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    I got the Duratec running the other weekend, it started quite easily, then stalled when I got out to check everything as the idle was too low.
    Turned up the idle and restarted it, it was idling quite smoothly, I had a good look round and noticed fluid coming out of the exhaust.

    So I turned it off and pulled the plugs out to find no 2 plug was completely clean and smelt of petrol and the other 3 were sooty. Thinking the worst, that the head gasket had gone, I went to do a compression test but the tester wouldn't fit into the recessed spark plug hole.
    A couple of days later, a new compression tester was delivered and this fitted fine, and the engine checked out ok with around 230psi in each cylinder.

    Next I unbolted the exhaust manifold and moved it away from the head so I could see what was happening / where the fluid was coming from, and went to start the engine.
    Only it wouldn't turn over very well - it would do nearly a complete revolution then stop as if it had a tight spot. I could move it past this with a socket on the crank bolt, then it would do another revolution and stop in the same place. The starter is old and rusty but turned the engine over fine for the compression test (with all the plugs out), so I removed the no 2 spark plug to see if that would help.

    It definitely helped and this time fluid shot out of the spark plug hole
    A quick sniff test established it was petrol and this was caused by a duff injector which was permanently open, so as soon as the fuel pump was on, it was filling the cylinder with petrol!

    Another week and I got some new Bosch "Green" injectors, and a new starter, and it's all running better now - I had a little drive around the yard this afternoon



    It definitely needs a rolling road session so that's the next thing to do before I enter any events
    GavinR

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  4. #523
    Racer Decade Plus User wildo105e's Avatar

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    great news and good find on that. I assume it was sort of hydrolocking on fuel. Don't duratecs look right at home in an escort bay.

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    That looks really smart Gavin

    Look forward to seeing it being used
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Looks great, as i was reading your post I though injector is stuck open

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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User GavinR's Avatar
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Well things haven't gone well over the last fews months - on HT's Rolling Road in May, there was a problem with the timing caused by the old wiring / ECU. We tried a new crank sensor but it did not make any difference, so I left Dvy with them to fit a new ECU and engine wiring loom. This was completed a couple of weeks ago and some mapping was done, but there was a distinct lack of power.

    Further investigations showed the engine was down on compression on all cylinders, but not losing any oil or water, so seems to be a valve / cam / timing issue.
    I got Dvy back home and took the head off - everything looks fine, but I'll take the bottom end out and take it all back to HT so it can be thoroughly checked, measured and put back together!
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    you must be very dissapointed having got it all bar finished - gutted for you - i am sure you will forge on, onwards and upwards and look forward to the positive outcome that has been delayed

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Have you had any more luck yet Gavin? Or any ideas?

    thanks
    kris

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    At least now you know it will be all fresh and ready to go.

    Do you have any events planned?

    its a bit of a busy year now events are running again!
    Hexham and District Motorclub

  11. #530
    Pit Crew Decade Plus User GavinR's Avatar
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    I dropped everything off at HT last weekend - Ron will strip and rebuild it as required, then run it on the dyno, so it should be ready to drop in when it comes back, hopefully in August.
    Still thinking about whether to try for an event in September.
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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User GavinR's Avatar
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    I did enter the event in September, the Three Shires Closed Road Stages which is based at Malvern Showground, but I'll be in Fly...

    Ron has stripped the Duratec, the bores are worn but the pistons are relatively new (so probably lost compression through the rings), there is play between the pistons and the rods, and the head is completely standard, not even had a skim.
    It will be rebuilt correctly and the problems sorted, I said not to rush though as I doubt I'll be out in it this year now.
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Hi Gavin,

    has there been any updates on this engine build? Feel gutted for you that you were ripped off on the engine, hope all is going well.

    thanks
    kris

  14. #533
    Pit Crew Decade Plus User GavinR's Avatar
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Hi Kris,
    It's in progress, hoping to get it back in the next few weeks
    Even if I had it back, I've been too busy to do much with it, but I'm keen to get everything ready for some events in 2022
    Thanks
    Gavin
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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User GavinR's Avatar
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Finally



    245 bhp and 175 lb ft of torque on the Dyno so should be good when I've got it back in Dvy
    GavinR

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    get in! Looks a beast, That’s a dream engine for me!

    When’s your first event or shake down?

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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User GavinR's Avatar
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    I hope to be out at one of the events at Down Ampney in April or May, but do a test day before then to make sure everything is ready to go
    GavinR

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Great read on your Duratec installation. Shame about the engine first time around. What ECU did HT go with? Or did they just re-map the one that came with the engine?

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    great write up as always

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Quote Originally Posted by beeRS View Post
    What ECU did HT go with? Or did they just re-map the one that came with the engine?
    Often wondered this myself with stand alone engine testing prior to customer delivery? Especially with this one ie. fitted with 803? Bosch Green injectors ie. low impedance types which won't play nicely with a lot of aftermarket ECU's. Having to wire up separate customer supplied ECU's could cause issues, be time consuming and a tuners generated map may not transfer to a customers ECU . . . . . . . . carbs were so simple LOL!

  22. #540
    Pit Crew Decade Plus User GavinR's Avatar
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Quote Originally Posted by beeRS View Post
    Great read on your Duratec installation. Shame about the engine first time around. What ECU did HT go with? Or did they just re-map the one that came with the engine?

    The engine came with an old MBE 967 and it was good enough to get it running, but not much more than that!

    When it was on the rollers at HT the first time, the ECU wasn't getting a good signal from the crank sensor and fitting a new one didn't make any difference, which pointed to either the ECU circuits degrading or the wiring loom. My cosworth was on a Vipec ECU supplied by HT (Vipec are now Link ECU) but they have been using Maxx ECU's for a few years now, so we went with a Maxx ECU Street version. Ron fitted it and made the loom on the car last year so it's all neat and tidy.

    Now it has been dyno'ed following the rebuild, the new map has been copied to my ECU so it will be ready to go once I've got the engine back in.
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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User GavinR's Avatar
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    As a test, I did a track day at Castle Combe this week.

    Passed the MOT after some welding to the boot floor / panhard rod mount, and I swapped the CWP from a 5.1 to a 4.6 which will give a top speed of 125mph instead of about 108mph (which is not enough for some of the events I'm hoping to do). The 4.6 was one I had taken out a few years ago and kept so a cheap swap.

    I'd done 25 miles on the road and then 60 miles at Combe - everything went well although the oil temp was a bit high (over 120) so a bigger oil cooler is on order!
    Water temp was 80-85 and I was getting up to 116mph into Avon Rise.

    Lap times (taken afterwards from the in car video) were around 1m 25s, very similar to the Cossie 2 years ago, but I was running the 5.1 then and getting flat out in 2 places so not a direct comparison. It was a lot better not worrying about hitting the limiter in 5th!

    The suspension is set up for Closed Road events, so a bit soft for a circuit

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Nice write up. At least you're reducing tyre wear by going round corners on 3 wheels.

    What's that revving to to give you that top speed with the 4.6 then Gav?
    It is still on 13" wheels, isn't it?

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Excellent read....good Luck with everything.

  26. #544
    Pit Crew Decade Plus User GavinR's Avatar
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Quote Originally Posted by rallyrob View Post
    Nice write up. At least you're reducing tyre wear by going round corners on 3 wheels.

    What's that revving to to give you that top speed with the 4.6 then Gav?
    It is still on 13" wheels, isn't it?
    The outside edge of the outside front tyre was showing a bit of canvas by the end of the day!

    Yes, always on 132 wheels - the rev limit is 8k and I've now got a Tracsport semi-helical gearbox (instead of the Quaife Pro) which has a higher 0.82 ratio 5th gear to help the top speed.
    The Tracsport gearbox with a 5.1 would give 113mph at 8k, but I'll stick to the 4.6 for the moment.
    The ideal ratio might be a 4.9 to give 120mph top speed but the CWP sets are not cheap!
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  28. #545
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Quote Originally Posted by GavinR View Post
    ...everything went well although the oil temp was a bit high (over 120) so a bigger oil cooler is on order...
    Found the issue with the oil temp - on the Cossie, I had a sender in the return union out of the dry sump pump and this went with the engine
    So I went back to using the sender in the bottom of the oil tank which I haven't used for years, but I must have had a different gauge last time I used it as it's over-reading by 20 degrees

    I'll fit the new oil cooler and have bought a new sender which matches the gauge in the car so I should get an accurate reading now
    GavinR

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Good news Gavin whats the first event?
    Hexham and District Motorclub

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Hi Gavin, great to see that you've got the new engine up and running.

    I see you've got an entry at Down Ampney at the end of May. I've also got an entry, first rally in ages.

    Any advice on tyres, it will be my first time there?

  31. #548
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Quote Originally Posted by 360phil View Post
    Hi Gavin, great to see that you've got the new engine up and running.

    I see you've got an entry at Down Ampney at the end of May. I've also got an entry, first rally in ages.

    Any advice on tyres, it will be my first time there?
    Hi

    Down Ampney is like most old airfields, all concrete, some bits breaking up in places and getting slightly rough
    It's also very slippery if it's wet - one corner is often wet even on a dry day
    Most crews will be on slicks with the odd one using worn knobblies - I'll be on old soft slicks

    Thanks
    Gavin
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  33. #549
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Thanks for the info Gavin.
    I just need my engine builder to finish my engine in time.

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Hope you guys share your experience in Down Ampney.

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    Pit Crew Decade Plus User GavinR's Avatar
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Red Dragon IT Stages - Down Ampney - Saturday 28th May 2022

    Finally it was time to do a rally with the new engine. There are 3 events at Down Ampney a year and this was the one that George was available for.
    There was a full entry of 75 cars plus reserves and we were seeded Car 18.

    I went over for scrutineering on Friday afternoon in case there were any issues - the first one was that my electric cut off switch pull cable was not working even though it seemed free. I always carry a spare new cable so that was quickly fitted. The other thing the scrutineer was interested in (under direction of the MSUK Technical Director) was Escorts with modified bulkheads and tunnels and mine fell into this category. The outcome was that my vehicle passport was noted as needing to be a Category 2 passport not a Category 1

    To cut a long story short, around 8 cars were also noted in the same way - subsequent discussions with MSUK established that the affected cars can continue to be used as they are, and MSUK will be issuing guidance confirming what and how big modifications are allowed under a Category 1 rules. As is often the case, the Blue Book rule is not very well defined!
    So scrutineering was passed and back home to finish loading a selection of tyres and off early on the Saturday.

    Down Ampney is an old airfield with 2 main runways and a perimeter track together with some wider areas of concrete and various trees and bushes near the roads. The roads are used by the farming estate and at some point it will be dug up for gravel. Even though there had already been 2 events there this year, the first stage is always very slippery as the concrete gets very dusty very quickly.

    We started slowly on the softest slicks I had (20 year old Dunlops) and slid around managing not to hit anything, and just stayed ahead the car behind us. In service, I decided a set of newer soft slicks would work better (10 year old Hankooks) so these were fitted all round and we went 40s quicker over the 8 mile stage. It might just have been because the surface had cleaned up considerably, but I immediately felt a lot more confident on those tyres.
    DVY was running well but I was having problems with gear selection, especially going into first for some of the tighter chicanes, caused by a weak spring on the gearstick.

    Stages 3 and 4 went well and I was learning how to work around the gear stick issue by being more careful. There were a lot of cars retiring, either through hitting bales or bushes, or just mechanical failures. I think we were about 12th at this point as Chris (who had come along to service) had a quick look. I wasn't too worried, I just wanted a good test of the car, and to try and remember how to drive her

    Stages 5 and 6, very similar, but when we got back to service we noticed an "egg" starting to appear in the sidewall of one of the front tyres, so fitted another matching Hankook. A quick check of the link bar bolts and some fuel and we were ready for the next one.

    Stages 7 and 8 were good, I felt I was getting faster as the day went on. We kept nearly catching a Historic Mini on the stages. but not quite close enough to go past.
    Now it was time to check the results - 7th overall, 11s behind 6th which was an Astra GTE in our class and we were taking 4-5s out of him each stage, and 2s ahead of another Mk2, also in our class, so time to get a move on with just 2 stages left

    As is common with most single venue events, stages are run in pairs with slight changes to the layout between them, so stage 9 had a simpler route through one complex. This meant we were using a bit that hadn't been used before and as I arrived in 5th to brake for the chicane, I found there was a lot of gravel and we weren't slowing down enough...
    George spotted a large bale she thought we were going to hit, and I counted 6 cones that were in the way as we headed sideways towards them, but at the last minute everything came back together and we got round the corner, and braked a lot earlier on the next lap!
    Despite this, we had gained another 6s on the Astra, so just 5s needed on the last one. I really went for it, the dodgy corner was nice and clean this time round and we squeezed past the Mini on one of the narrower straights to go 12s quicker. The Astra also improved but not enough.

    Final result was 6th overall and 2nd on class, our last stage time was 3rd quickest and we beat the Astra by 6s
    Very very pleased with the result and the way DVY performed - the new engine didn't use any water or blow out any oil, we just changed some tyres and put fuel in which is how it should be
    Many thanks to George as always

    It was good to meet 360phil at scrutineering with his very tidy N/A Cossie powered Mk1 - he also got picked up for a modified bulkhead at scrutineering but I think they retired after ending up in a bush, hopefully without too much damage

    Some in car from Stage 7 before the battery ran out
    Last edited by GavinR; 02-06-2022 at 23:14.
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    another great read Gavin. i chuckled when i read about the MSUK stuff, although i dont move in rallying circles i am a scrut myself, and i can tell you we all hate the blue book for its holes and discrepancies. just like the MOT testers manual, which allegedly is also black and white with no grey areas, but we all know both are
    Last edited by Graham; 04-06-2022 at 07:10.

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Good read and looks like the new engine works well! Hopefully the escort tunnel situation doesn’t filter down to road/targa although not sure it could with cars not needing to be logbooked.

    Cheers

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    looking good Gavin

    Iíll wait for my car to get picked up on that then on the next event

  40. #555
    Pit Crew Decade Plus User GavinR's Avatar
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Yes the Blue Book is never black and white!

    The Blue Book allows for "localised alteration" to the bulkhead, transmission tunnel, floor to allow the fitting of a different engine / gearbox / axle, so I have asked for a definition of "localised alteration". Some people interpret this as you can enlarge / modify the standard panels with a hammer, but not replace the panel with one of a different shape for example.
    I'm sure it won't be a problem for less modified Targa cars - on the last Targa I did, the scrutineers were more interested in whether various cars rear seats still had the original metal framework inside them...

    I'll update when I get the promised "guidance" from MSUK
    GavinR

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    Haven't caught up here for a good while Gavin so its been a great catch up!

    great result at down ampney! - tricky place that can be

    The Cat2 logbook issue is just a headache, my hand was forced about 6 years ago now and was told then they were having a big push on it.... it only really seems this last 12 months they actually are but that said no one actually knows who what where when and why!??

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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    What a fantastic result Gavin. All the finishers did well to make it to the finish at such a tricky venue. The rate of attrition was incredible.
    We had a bit of a nightmare: the engine kept cutting out on the first stage, then on the next stage the oil gauge capillary pipe split spraying oil all over the engine bay and collecting in the sump guard, eventually spilling out causing the rear tyres to lock up and off we went up a bank. Have had to change the bottom end bearings, but other than that and a bent compression strut we got away it.
    I must resurrect my car thread - not added to it in 11 years!!

  44. #558
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    Re: GavinR's Mk2 Stage Car - DVY

    While I am waiting the official guidance from MSUK, I thought I would look into what I can do to put the bulkhead back to a more standard profile.

    Although the Duratec fits with the current bulkhead recess, the exhaust is very tight between the chassis gusset and the steering column, the water elbow is almost touching the bulkhead at one point, and the air filter is tight against the bulkhead. In front of the engine, there's plenty of room to move the whole engine forwards by at least 1", so that's a start and will mean any bulkhead recess would be a lot smaller if one is required.

    The engine and gearbox mounts shouldn't be too bad, and the gear stick hole is already enlarged forwards from when I had a sequential gearbox, the engine plumbing and wiring will all work, which just left the propshaft. After a bit of googling, I found this 1" propshaft spacer from Grp4 Fabrications.



    And I bought a Magnum Panels heater bubble, trimmed off the top section (as I won't be removing the scuttle grill) and laid it in place. It just about fits and the bottom lip is above the water elbow, so with everything moved forwards it will fit easily.

    GavinR

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