Pinto Roller Cam setup

[Jalu]

A word of warning, those spring clips are on backwards, that way the rocker will want to jump off the end of the valve if there is any sign of valve bounce, the ears of the clips on the ball studs should be pointing towards the camshaft then the mouse trap springs push the rocker against the valve at all times, hope that makes sense.

Regards
Jason

Spring clips are just that they should be!!!! Roller must follow the cam and lash has to be on to the valve that valve tip and lash cap get more oiling. If you made correct lash caps you drill 0,5mm hole on center that oil can past lash cap to the valve tip.But that not nesessary because there is so much oilfog under valve cover but thats how they should be done. And cam also last longer when roller follow the cam because cam doesn "hit" on the side of roller.If you put the springs like std follower roller eat itself on to the cam because of that "hit".

Regards Jari

[RWD fords rule]

Hello Jari

That is interesting, with 0.011" cam lash there would be a gap of 0.020" or 0.5mm between the lash cap and roller rocker tip, sounds like a lot of play to me, the lash cap could possibly dance up and down at high rpm, I also see you use HD mouse trap springs.

What cam clearance do you use? or do you prefer to set the clearance on the end of the valve?

Have you any more footage of your car in action, super sideways

Regards
Jason

[Jalu]

Hello Jari

That is interesting, with 0.011" cam lash there would be a gap of 0.020" or 0.5mm between the lash cap and roller rocker tip, sounds like a lot of play to me, the lash cap could possibly dance up and down at high rpm, I also see you use HD mouse trap springs.

What cam clearance do you use? or do you prefer to set the clearance on the end of the valve?

Have you any more footage of your car in action, super sideways

Regards
Jason

If cam is my own profiles correct set for lash is 0,18mm-0,20mm measured between roller and cam and set when engine is hot.But if set up is crane cams or you have to set lash for manufactures installions (camcard).But there is several things what has to be check and newer be exactly like written on camcard when your set up is on the head. Example crane cams 300 roller cam.Lash for intake 0,010" = 0,25mm between roller and cam measured seat decrees 312 because 300 like written on camcard is for 0,022" = 0,56mm lash.And 0,050" = 1,27mm measeured decrees 257 if you have sat lash for 0,010" = 0,25mm and camcard say 268 decrees with zero lash.And lift also read on camcard 0,608" = 15,44mm with zero lash but you newer get more than14,90- 15,00mm lift if you set lobe center right. But if you widened lobe center 2-3 decrees you can bossible get lift that read on camcard. I mean that maybe always when you look Usa made camshafts you get milder one what you are thinking of when you look manufactures information. I think thats why European cam manufactures prefer to use informations of seat decrees with lash, 1mm-1mm decrees with lash and lift with lash or lift - lash, so what they say thats what you get, and what comes to 0,050 informations if you take there lash off (usually 0,010") you get that 1mm-1mm.
I hope you understund what i am meaning!
No new wideos right now.

Regards Jari

[RWD fords rule]

Hi Jari

I understand exactly what you are saying, I hate the way most cam companies quote figures without lash as this is not how the engine will be running and should be measured with the lash figure that will be used, also a lot of cam companies quote figures that are not true when measured at the valve retainer in the engine with or without lash.

How much would you charge for a new steel billet roller cam and what material do you use?
Most if not all the US companies use SAE 8620 for their solid roller pinto cams with copper plated core before hardening to keep the core at around 30 RC after hardening and 60 RC on the cam lobes so that the core has some flexibility to absorb harsh vibrations etc without breaking.

I know i asked you this before but what port filler do you use?

Thanks
Jason

[Jalu]

New Camshaft cost 570e without vat. Made off high tensity tempered steel (moc) hardened 55-60hrc.Camshafts can be made for small base circle 24mm under and 22.5mm core diameter without broplems depend what you are looking for. New roller followers 250e-290e without vat not sure day price + carriage. Cam profile for high torque and small engines 92mm under, profile e203, and high rewwing and larger 94mm over and long stroke profile e205. I dont publish specs for the cam profiles but i say they are around 300 decrees, lift around 15,0-16,0mm,because they pull like hell and work very well. Lobe separation can be made of what you are looking for. I have never be seen Ford ohc Us made camshaft what is copper plated. They are all made off cast blanks not billet cores. I think billet core cams are made of European.
I use Loctite chemical metal for port filling or Benzoil chemical metal.

Jari

[Jalu]

Sorry. Belzona chemical metal. Also long steel studs 120e without vat.

Jari

[RWD fords rule]

I have heard only good things about Belzona 1111, it is said to withstand almost any fuel unlike most other metal fillers.
Have you any experiance using this with E85 fuel?

What sort of bhp and torque levels at the flywheel have you managed to get with a 2.0 and your e203 roller profile?
I'm also interested to know what spring pressures you use on seat and full open?

Esslinger engineering, Comp Cams and Crower will only grind their 2.0 3 bearing and 2.3 4 bearing pinto cams from billet as their profiles have faster valve acceleration than most of the old Crane profiles, they would most likely snap a cast cam into pieces.

I love the sound of your roller pinto's, they almost sound like a BDA at high revs

Regards
Jason

[Group4_Mark2]

Have you a link to the videos?

[RWD fords rule]

http://www.youtube.com/user/JALMARI71

[Jalu]

I have heard only good things about Belzona 1111, it is said to withstand almost any fuel unlike most other metal fillers.
Have you any experiance using this with E85 fuel?

What sort of bhp and torque levels at the flywheel have you managed to get with a 2.0 and your e203 roller profile?
I'm also interested to know what spring pressures you use on seat and full open?

Esslinger engineering, Comp Cams and Crower will only grind their 2.0 3 bearing and 2.3 4 bearing pinto cams from billet as their profiles have faster valve acceleration than most of the old Crane profiles, they would most likely snap a cast cam into pieces.

I love the sound of your roller pinto's, they almost sound like a BDA at high revs

Regards
Jason

Hello
I use Only e98 fuel.50-60kg at seat depend on situations never worried open pressure ,there is enought always.Here is some results.



92mm wiseco std stroke e203 cam 45mm weber dizzy.


95mm wiseco std stroke e203 cam 43mm slide hestec f+i management 2-spark .



95mm wiseco std stroke e205 cam45mm slide hestec f+i management 2-spark.
And there is severals 92mm wiseco std stroke e205 cam what made over 230bhp but i cant find those Brake prints right now.

And now few other brake prints made by my friend mr.Sakari Mattila who is legendary porting wizard from Finland and one person what i personally respect greatly.



Look at the date of print. I blacket it some that it can be seen easily.This print is very old so it is not to be seen otherwise.
Specks 92mm wiseco std stroke 45mm webers dizzy 4-1 ex crene cams roller.
Pull wery strong 157.1kw = 213,6bhp at 7128rpm 232,6nm at 5910rpm very wide power band and date was 13.03.1997. 13 years ago.

And now power print for engine that i think is best ever made Ford ohc for the world. If some one has to proof better engine you can put it in here.
94mm bore std stroke Hestec f+i management 2- spark and slide.
Made By Mr.Sakari Mattila From Riihimäki/Finland.



252bhp at 7442 rpm and 255nm at 6170 rpm

Who say that Ohc cant pull WERY HARD???????

Regards Jari

[RWD fords rule]

Very impressive results
Have you had any problems with the ball studd lock nut loosening at high rpm and the centre cam bearing quickly wearing out?

Do you space out the valve guides slightly by about 0.5mm and then leave the ball studd in the same location to fit very big valves?

Many thanks
Jason

[Graham]

good stuff although running on E90 prbably accounts for about 15-20bhp

[Group4_Mark2]

Small update on Roller cam engine.

Owner ran the engine without a rev limiter (against all advice) as he liked how it revved. I believe he was going to 9000rpms plus. Anyhow to cut a long story short one of the rods let go and punched a hole in the side of the block and through the sump. It seems that it broke near the small end. The rods were Farndon I beam steel rods but I suppose that even these can only put up with so much punishment.

Tom

[Graham]

thats a great pitty, as you say even fardon rods will only put up with so much, i doubt they were ever intended to cope with over 9K, so are you going to rebuild?

[Group4_Mark2]

Y, Disapointed with the fail. Even though it was a mechanical failure I cannot help wondering if there was anything I could have done to prevent it. Not sure what the rebuild plans are. The owners other car has a Millington 2.5l engine so it seems he wants more power than the pinto could ever deliver. The car may be fitted with a cosworth or a vauxhall red top.

Anyhow here is a small video of when it was going

http://www.youtube.com/user/tomfeasa.../0/JrmzWbEPYho

Tom

[caprimentle]

the thing sounds immense, such a shame the rod snapped, it couldn't of been helped at that rpm, but the hard part is done, the head is all set up, it only really needs a new bottom end rebuilt which compaired to the headd, its fairly basic, i dont think you should loose hope yet lets just pray a piston hasn't wacked the head

[Group4_Mark2]

If I had my way I would rebuld with long rods (5.7 inch) and small lightweight pistons. This would allow the bottom end to rev to the moon without putting the same stresses on the components. Worst case is two valves are bent and one piston is wrecked both of which can be replaced. I have the valves already so that would cost nothing. Pistons are acralite which are not too expensive from burtons. Not sure what rods to go for If I keep the 5 inch rods. Cosworth rods seem to be bullet proof but again 9000rpm will be likely to break them eventually.

Tom

[caprimentle]

cant remember but does it have to remain 2000cc, if not built yourself one seriously high powered 2.3 possibly 2.4 pinto, im sure it would be possible. that in turn would also drop the revs, your'll have more power and miles more torque and it wouldn't require reving to 9k in turn being a hell of alot more reliable aswell, after all, its revs that kill an engine really, not power.

alex

[RWD fords rule]

Hi Tom
Sorry to hear about the bottom end letting go, yes I agree even the most expensive steel rods available aren't going to take 9000rpm for long with 5" C to C.
If you are thinking of going for the 5.7" eagle rods they are out of stock and won't be reproduced until the end of this year, I had been waiting on them for 3 months from a us company before they told me this! lol

PEC in the uk sell a long rod kit, not 5.7" but the piston + rod kit price is fairly reasonalbe, should be capable of 8500rpm continually.

If you are thinking of selling that roller head please send me an email, could make the green goblin really fly

I am having a shit load of trouble finding a roller cam with .575" lift, have almost given up at this stage.

Regards
Jason

[Group4_Mark2]

Hello jason,

Good to hear from you again.

Why dont you use the Crower maxilite 5.7" rods rods or rods from the following site http://www.importperformanceparts.ne...1rods-all.html

Not sure yet what is happening with the roller head but if he decides to sell I will let you know.

Regards
Tom

[RWD fords rule]

Hey Tom
To be honest crower maxi lite rods would be my first choice but the budget just won't stretch that far as we are looking at fuel injection and a lot of other bits all going in at the same time, ballancing £ vs performance as usual.

I was looking at some pics of a JRE 229bhp 1999cc pinto today, sounds like an all out engine money no object.
http://posthistoricescort.fotopic.net/c1627615.html

The good old ashley manifold is hard to beat.

The K1 rods look a little too narrow in the H beam for my liking, was going for the eagle 5.7" rods as I know they are tried and tested bomb proof and also pretty cheap, its either that or cossie rods and wossner pistons, depending on budget and time frame, I think the 5.7 rods should be worth 5 or 6bhp over the cossie rods and also a lot lighter so better acceleration too.

Yeah let me know what the plans are for that head

Cheers
Jason

[Graham]

The good old ashley manifold is hard to beat.

£ per bhp its probably the best!

[RWD fords rule]

Ha ha, right you are Graham, that's not to say a custom manifold would not be better, would add at least 10bhp but yeah it would cost about 3 to 4 times the price of the ashley manifold.
I might have an alternative manifold that will give more power coming my way later this year from Finland for a reasonable price, more on that if it materialises.

By the way Graham I have a question for you, with the Linford engine running on 45mm TB's and the P5 cam, is the engine responsive / driveable at low rpms, like 2500 to 3000rpm?
ie will it punch hard away from tight corners?

Thinking of a cam upgrade for the green goblin + 12 to 1 and TB's

Cheers
Jason

[Graham]

the thing dave has always said about linford was that he always had all the power available, it would happily potter around at low revs stick your welly down and it just went, theres a graph on here somewhere

[RWD fords rule]

That is good to hear, I think fuel injection is the way to go, that engine would most likely refuse to run well below 3k with 48's and a dizzy with the P5 overlap.

[Graham]

That is good to hear, I think fuel injection is the way to go, that engine would most likely refuse to run well below 3k with 48's and a dizzy with the P5 overlap.

i'd absolutely agree with that!

me beemer has a 336 degree cam and 50mm t/bs, anyet with three passengers on board will happily drive up the step paddock hill at brands in any gear you like at walking pace and will accelerate if you ask , 5th gear includeded, the same cam on 45's didnt want to know anything below 5000rpm!

[RS2KSX]

any updates?

[Group4_Mark2]

The roller cam engine is back after punching a hole through the block when a rod broke at the small end. I have posted on another thread but will update here soon. After this setback a decision is soon to be made about the future of the engine. The options are, replace all the conrods and the broken pistons so the engine will be back to where it was or the second option is to upgrade the bottom end so that it will easily take 9000rpms and do some mods to the head now that my flow bench is up and running to improve the power.. Not sure what is happening yet but I will post as soon as I know.

Regards
Tom

[RS2KSX]

waiting with baited breath :-)

[caprimentle]

[Group4_Mark2]

Small update on the roller engine which still lives and gets better.

Engine recently rebuilt and after a few years of trouble free service. Needed a new valve and some rework on the port filler. One piece had dislodged and disappeared out the exhaust.(not good but no damage done.)

Engine is now on throttle bodies

Not sure if the video can be seen but the following is a link from Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=662729797138178



Only have the dyno plot from the first run but finally made 205bhp and 166lbft torque.

[madragon199]

nice one tom...did you rebuild the engine...mark

[Group4_Mark2]

I only rebuilt the head this time. I re-did the porting work to better match each port to the other. I also changed slightly the shape of the inlet port to give a wider short side to help the air around the corner. The exhaust ports were left as they were. The same cam went back in with new bearings. I changed one valve and put in new valve seals. The block was rebuilt by someone else who changed the rings and bearings and assembled the complete engine.

[Group4_Mark2]

There is more to come from the engine yet when the mapping is finished. It was running on pump fuel at 205bhp so the map is fairly conservative. It is also running a little rich at the higher revs so this could also be fine tuned to help things. It would be nice to get over the 210bhp.

[madragon199]

i really wanted a roller cam...the main problem i encountered was getting the followers....is the engine running injection system...great figures.....good to see you back on the engines....mark

[Group4_Mark2]

It is now running injection and throttle bodies so this is helping things a little.

Regarding the followers I got them on ebay of a 2.3L turbo mustang. I paid very little for them and they have been perfect so far. There are two types and I cannot remember which ones you should get. The biggest thing with the roller cam and the huge lift that it gives (nearly 15mm) is the valve springs to use. The ones I have are off a chevy. They are very high pressure springs so I had to get the cam towers strapped to prevent them breaking under the load. So far the welding has worked perfectly.

[Group4_Mark2]

Small Video on the chassis dyno

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf1DXfL7kx4

[Group4_Mark2]

Bumper Cam,

Engine sounded good until the flywheel parted company with the crankshaft.

http://youtu.be/bV3WTYS4XH0?list=UUO...4T8-d7y3gjMo9g