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Thread: Escort Sigma 1600 Race Car

  1. #81
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Escort

    Got the plate back from the shop today. And It came out perfect. Now I have a solid base to bolt the engine mount to.
    The plate was quite dark and greasy so gave it a quick touch up.

    Program is saved to the jet cutter so these can be easily re produced If needed.

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    Going to give the cam timing a try this weekend. It's not going to be a walk in a park since it has to be done with lift @ TDC method using three dial gauges.
    After finding out the space between piston and valves in the TDC i can start calculating the compression ratio. And send the pistons to be coated.

  2. #82
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Escort

    Gave the mounting plate a bit more polish today.
    This will do for now. Did not have it anodized because I'm not sure is this right type of alloy for having it done. Maybe I'll give it a go after I've repolished the plate a few times

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  3. #83
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Escort

    We got the timing for the test build done today
    Plenty (ish) of clearance between the valves and pistons. Now we'll figure out the exact compression ratio. Now I can be confident we can atleast skim the head to get the compression needed.

    Some pics of the timing using lift @ TDC method. Had no chance getting the dial gauges to the cylinder no 1 buckets so we had to do the timing with the fourth cylinder TDC.

    Firs we set the lift @ TDC using two dial gauges

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    Then locked the cams in place and lifted the first and fourth pistons to TDC using third dial gauge.

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    Istalled the betlt and checked the timing.

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    The tensioner had thrown the timig and lift off by six tenths of a millimeter so we timed it again Thank god (or Kent Cams in this case) for adjustable cam pulleys!
    In the end of the day we got as close as two hundreds of a millimeter away from the manufacturers values. Close enough for the test build.

    Then I dismantelled the head and measured the blue tack (pic earlyer in this thread) squeesed by the valves. Looks ok. Did not take any pics of the squeesed blue tacks tough.



    So on to measuring the compression ratio....

    P.S

    I'm not too thrilled about his OE timing belt tensioner pulley. We had some premature failures with these ones at work.
    Has anyone found a propper replacement? I'll be changin this tensioner to every season so I think it'll hold but still not big fan of automatic spring loaded tensioners.
    For example the engine couild not be rotated counter clockwise because the spring would've gave up and the belt would jump. Had to do two whole rotations clockwise every time...

  4. #84
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Escort

    Mesured the air between piston and valve and it seems to be 2mm @ tdc after skimming the head.
    Only one tenth of a mm needs to removed from the head. The compression ratio with the skimmed head is 12.8:1 so very pleased with that.


    The pistons are sent to be coated this week and the head is at the machine shop. Hope to start the final build up next week.

    Oh, and for the final build the OE tensioner pulley will be changed for eccentric metal one.
    Last edited by Roadsport; 30-09-2009 at 18:43.

  5. #85
    Way too much free time Decade Plus User Retromotorsport's Avatar
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    Re: Escort

    I think, but i may be wrong, that Clint was using Cosworth YB tensioners

  6. #86
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Escort

    Quote Originally Posted by Retromotorsport View Post
    I think, but i may be wrong, that Clint was using Cosworth YB tensioners

    With the Zetec SE ? I'll have to check into that. I was steered to Audi's way.
    Thank you!!

  7. #87
    Way too much free time Decade Plus User Retromotorsport's Avatar
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    Re: Escort

    Ahh yeah, you not using the 2.0L Zetec.. sorry may be a wrong steer then

  8. #88
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Escort

    Quote Originally Posted by Retromotorsport View Post
    Ahh yeah, you not using the 2.0L Zetec.. sorry may be a wrong steer then

    Thats right I'm going with the all alloy small block baby Zetec.

    Audi tensioner looks right by the looks of it but I'll now for sure when i fit one.

    VAG corporation also provides me a radiator I wanted. With the water inlet and outlet on the same end of the radiator. This will make the plumbing a lot more easier for me.

  9. #89
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Escort

    Little garage science. The future cros member taking a acid trip
    I mean taking a dip in a citric acid bucket.

    Not really sure witch should be negative and witch positive but this way the rust seems to bubble more.

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    After rust removal I' ll use a spot welder to make the crossmember more rigid. And after a bit of cuting It'll be powder coated.

    This way I don't have to ruin the world cup cross member.

  10. #90
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Escort

    Today I started the final build up of the engine.
    Got the head back and now its re-cleaned and skimmed down by one tethns of a mm.
    Also got my pistons back today. The new coat on them looks quite dood. Got the pistons in the block today.
    Hoping to get the head on to the block on weekend.
    Then I think I'll have to do the timing again.

    And hopefully sometime next week I can start to do the modifications to the crossmember to clear room for the newcommer.

    That citric acid worked fine on the old rusty crossmember. Now the other end of it will get dipped.

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  11. #91
    Racer Decade Plus User duncan's Avatar

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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    great thread keep the updates coming very interested in what the final power will be

    will sure save you some weight over the pinto thats for sure

  12. #92
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    The engine is put together again. And this time hopefully I do not need to take it apart again for a while.

    Only things remaining on the to do list are installinfg the sump and find a suiting eccentric timing belt tensioner pulley. Last but not least is again the dial gauge timing session.

    But now I can pretty much say that I have the hardware put together

    Next is the engine installation to the car.

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    Last edited by Roadsport; 11-10-2009 at 14:47. Reason: typos

  13. #93
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Quote Originally Posted by duncan View Post
    great thread keep the updates coming very interested in what the final power will be

    will sure save you some weight over the pinto thats for sure

    Thanks Duncan.

    The regulations allow me to lightetn the car by 80 kg's. When going with 1600 cc 16 valve engine instead of 2.0 8 valve engine.
    And most of that weight loss is achived with the engine swap itself.

    I'm quite curious about the power too. This is quite ambitious project to start with since my pinto was not bad by any means. And to top that with a smaller block

  14. #94
    Racer Decade Plus User duncan's Avatar

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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    yes very unusual to see anyone swaping for a smaller cc engine, but i can see why you would want to.
    what do you think the weight of the car will be once the engine swap is completed?

    cheers
    duncan

  15. #95
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Yesterday, again, I noticed a potential problem when test fitting the head gasket to the head.
    The volume of the combustion chambers had increased just enough to reach over the head gasket. Thus leaving a slight portion of the gasket in the conbustion chamber.
    Thin metal gasket would've certailny glowed red hot and most possibly caused detonation.

    So had to gring a couple tenths of a millimeter off the gasket edges and now it seems to fit just fine.

    Most of my time with this new engine has been spent measuring and test fitting bits together. But hopefully all that time is time well spent and not wasted. I hope I've now found all the bugs in this assembly.

  16. #96
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Quote Originally Posted by duncan View Post
    yes very unusual to see anyone swaping for a smaller cc engine, but i can see why you would want to.
    what do you think the weight of the car will be once the engine swap is completed?

    cheers
    duncan
    According to the regulations the car has to weight 870kg's
    And getting to that weight is not going to be a problem.
    I now carry 80kg's of led as extra ballast. The Zetec will be 60 to 70 kg's lighter than the Pinto so in addiotion I'll just drop off some of that ballast weight to hit the 870kg mark.
    I'll get the led out !

    Would be fun to weight the car with small battery and without the ballast. I recon it could weight somewhere around 800kgs. With the bulky mustang rear axle

  17. #97
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Yesterday the sump went on. I have to it really looks nice on the engine ! And I think it'll be quite easy to install to the bay. As for the oil reservoir I've not decided where to install it. I've read some debait on other threads on where to put it but I'm not convinced yet. Weight of the plumbing is not an issue in this build. And I'm tempted to get the weight from front to back. Alltough I've seen it done many times I'm not yet convinced on the advantages of installing to the engine bay. The correct level of the reservoir would be easyer to achieve in the bay . And I guess the oil would be better at hand for the pump.

    I'll make the decission later... But if someone with a strong point should read this please advise.

    Its on there.
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    And the cross member is de-rusted now. I' have to say the citric asid is a life saver. It's quite a change to the previous photos I posted earlier.
    Tough a bit slow process it would've been a nightmare to sand all the rust from this one. Now, on to s the more rapid part of the modification the cutting, grinding, drilling and welding bit .

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    Last edited by Roadsport; 13-10-2009 at 11:18.

  18. #98
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    I have built several of the 1.7 versions of this engine. I used a solid adjustable cam belt tensioner originally designed by Swindon Race Engines as the plastic ones are useless. I think you be able to buy one from Birkbeck Rallysport who have all the Puma S1600 parts bought from Ford. Expensive though, around £300.

    You could try a Puma head gasket which may have a bigger bore, not sure. I have an old one that I can measure if it would help.

    With te dry sump kit does it clear the Mk1 Escort Xmember OK? I would love to put one of these engines in an Escort as they are cracking (I have fitted them to Westfields and Caterhams)

    I used a Daihastu tiny alternator in the Caterham using the original mounts with some minor mods from what I remember, worked fine.

    Ritchie

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  20. #99
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    The 1.6 has 79mm bore and the gasket has 80mm hole.
    The 1.7 has 80mm bore so propably it'll have bigger hole.
    I guess the thicknes cant be very far off either.
    Now why did'nt I think of that. Thanks for the tip

    I've grinded 0,5mm-1mm off from the four corners of the gasket. Behind the valves. It clears the combustion chamber now and did not puncture the wrinkle that seals the bore so I hope for now this will hold. But for the future this is one clue to investigate.

    300£ for a tensioner pulley?! Thats too much.
    I'm now looking at Audi and Peugeot tensioners. Peugeot uses a funny adaptor stud. Its a 10mm stud with 8mm threads and bolts to the block. This allows the use of a tensioner with 10mm hole.
    But I'd rather use a tensioner with 8mm bolt without. I know Audi has some eccentric tensioners with 8mm hole.

    I'm not 100% sure how well It'll clear the cros member. I've only made hasty measurements but according to those measurements It should clear with no problems (knock on wood). Soon we'll see.

  21. #100
    Tyre Kicker owlscastle's Avatar

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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    If you can find a decent eccentric pulley I have a sample mounting plate to hold it which I could measure, photograph etc for you if you want to copy it.

  22. #101
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Mounting plate for the tensioner? Do I need one?
    Doesn't the cam belt tensioner bolt to the block in the Puma engine. As it does on the older Zetec SE's.

    Mine is the newer one where the tensioner bolts to the waterpump. I was thinking of simply bolting the eccentric tensioner to the waterpump housing.

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  23. #102
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    I can take some pix of mine if it will help. I thought the 1.6 and 1.7 were basically the same block and water pump etc.

  24. #103
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Quote Originally Posted by owlscastle View Post
    I can take some pix of mine if it will help. I thought the 1.6 and 1.7 were basically the same block and water pump etc.
    Please. It would help.

    In Puma's days they we're near identical. But after the Puma's production has ended the Zetec has had some minor updates since. These are the timing belt tensioner pulley and the water pump.

    The older tensioner bolter to the block eith two 8mm bolts. These new tensioners bolt the waterpump housing with one 8mm bolt.
    Last edited by Roadsport; 19-10-2009 at 06:47.

  25. #104
    World Champion Decade Plus User RETRO_AL's Avatar

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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Very nice car and build,keep up the good work

  26. #105
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Quote Originally Posted by RETRO_AL View Post
    Very nice car and build,keep up the good work

    Thank you!
    It's now moving along nicely once I got all the major parts.
    Engine only now needs to be mounted to the car. And a little bit of water, oil, petrol and electronics

    Oh , oh and a gearbox...

  27. #106
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    I think I sorted the tensioner issue today.
    I fitted on the Peugeot XU engine tensioner with the funny stud system. It seems to work fine. And after fitting it I even think its more solid than the plain 8mm bolt.
    Sorry for the poor picture quality had to resort to my phone again. And I know. Quantity does not make up for quality.

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    The crosmember is modified now. It now it needs a good powder coating and it can be installed. The engne mounts were removed so they would not be in the way. Their useless as the engine will mount to the chassis.
    Also drilled the holes to take the adjustable TCA's. And welded washers on for extra strenght.

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  28. #107
    Pole Position Decade Plus User david_white's Avatar

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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Not far off now, the engine looks great so hopefully it will not be long before its in the car and running

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  29. #108
    Racer Decade Plus User Roadsport's Avatar
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Quote Originally Posted by david_white View Post
    Not far off now, the engine looks great so hopefully it will not be long before its in the car and running

    Thanks David. I predict its in the car pretty soon. But to get it runnig. It might still take a while.
    The goal is to get the car moving on its own by the end of the year tough.

    David, could you tell me what were the benefits that convinced you to install the oil tank to the angine bay?
    This is the first dry sump engine I'm dealing with and I'm trying to gather all the arguments and facts to make my decission.

  30. #109
    Pole Position Decade Plus User david_white's Avatar

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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadsport View Post
    David, could you tell me what were the benefits that convinced you to install the oil tank to the angine bay?
    This is the first dry sump engine I'm dealing with and I'm trying to gather all the arguments and facts to make my decission.
    The main benefits to me were that the sierra has no firewalled off boot space like most escorts, meaning it wuld have to be in an ally container, the pipe runs are a lot shorter plus the tank is in the line of airflow in the front of the car.

    Of course there are pros and cons either way you fit it, but a lot of race cars (not rally) here, including the very successful HT racing ones, have them in the engine bay
    Last edited by david_white; 21-10-2009 at 18:48.

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  31. #110
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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Have you experienced any oil draining back in to the engine/sump problems?
    I take it this is a less of a problem when the tank is mounted to the bay. One can easily adjust the height of the tank to right level so the migration of the oil would me minimal or none.

    This will be a problem for me if I'd put the tank to boot. I use single huge muffler that has raised the boot floor. On the other side and the other side is filled with the petrol tank. I'm afraid It'll be a pain to get the tank to the right level to prevent the oil migration back to the sump.

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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    i went out to a broken down tvr the other week, that was factory dry sumped with the tank in the front


    Have you experienced any oil draining back in to the engine/sump problems?
    mine doesnt and thats in the engine bay, dave usher runs a dry sumped 205 in dmn his tank is in theory way too high as it sits above the gearbox it doesnt cause him any iuusses other than you cant really check the oil level without running the engine first.

    i was talking to a chap running a dry sumped s2000 in an escort, and asking him about draining back because his tank was also very high, the answer was it would drain back if left unused for a long long while, but it was no issue because he liked to drop the pump belt off and use a drill to spin the pump over to prime the engine anyway.

    my own thoughts, so what it it does drain back? as long as theres enough oil in the tank to start the engine the scavenge will soon empty the sump and refill the tank anyway.

    i always crank mine over with the ignition off until i see 20psi pressur before flicking the ignition on and firing the engine up.

    also in my case running a front mounted tank means i dont need an oil cooler

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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    It think the oil in the crank case is not an issue if the case does not get filled up entirelly? I do not know if thats even possible.

    I was thinking of utilizing the "skip pulse"- action in my ECU. So basicly the engine needs to be cranked for X ammount of revolutions before it fires up. This would propably sort the drainig issues. I cant do the spinning by drilling thingy.

    Pace products advise to install the oil tank as close to the oil pump as possible. This wouid second the installation to the bay.

    But seeing as I allready have a firewall. And will install an oil cooler and oil thermostat. And the added weight is not an issue in this build. I'm very tempted to free some space from the engine bay and put the tank to the boot.
    This would make the engine more serviceable. And easier to remove. And I predict this one will be removed quite often.

    Is there something in particular I should look out for when intsalling the tank to the boot?

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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    I cant do the spinning by drilling thingy
    i dont want to be pulling belts or pulleys off either, so i have an on/off switch for the ecu to isolate it, so all the rest of the cars electrics are live except the ecu, once pressure is up i dont even take my finger off the start button just use another finger to flick the ecu on and she fires up after a as soon as fuel pressure is up a second or two later ( the ecu controlls the fuel pumps)

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    Racer Decade Plus User angliaant's Avatar

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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    this escort is a very cool project, i really like it cos it is different, gotta love the 1600 SE lump, just because it is is soo light ! very interested to watch this come together, if your car comes in too far under weight can you put ballast in it ? in which case is that not a good thing because you can put the weight exactly where you weant it instead of being governed by components

    keep up the good work fella !
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    thanks Guys !


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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Quote Originally Posted by angliaant View Post
    this escort is a very cool project, i really like it cos it is different, gotta love the 1600 SE lump, just because it is is soo light ! very interested to watch this come together, if your car comes in too far under weight can you put ballast in it ? in which case is that not a good thing because you can put the weight exactly where you weant it instead of being governed by components

    keep up the good work fella !
    Thanks! I'm keen on the Zetec SE myself too. Well obviously. It's not very popular conversion is it? It's very challenging to work with such a modern small engine after the Pinto and X-flow. Especially when its not at all recognised as a potential racing engine here in Finland. And I'm very tempted by the power figures some have achieved. I'm about to top them all of course
    What happened to your engine plans?

    And the weight of course is one main thing with this swap. 80kg lighter than pinto engined cars. And with far better weight distribution

    It allready has 80kg of ballast weight. I don't think it'll be underweight after the swap . The regulations allow to lighten the car by 80kg's. I do not think the engine swap itself will loose 80kg's off the car. It could count for something around 60kg's in overall weight. I'll just loose the remaining weights from the ballast I carry.

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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    good god man pull your finger out!!! we build 2500 sigma engines a day.. very nice project i'll let you know when we start building 1.6 turbo motors..

    cheers terry

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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    o.k cool, yeah defo help you loose a lot of weight, RE my engine, i got some silly wheels cheap and now have silly plans for the car, so the SE just wouldnt make the power needed to get me going quick enough (not in N/A form anyway) would be interested in the turbo version though if they do make them
    Wanted: Second Hand Tremec TKO 500, 600 or T56 Gearbox... Cash Waiting
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    It would seem my computer skills are not good enough !!

    thanks Guys !


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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Quote Originally Posted by topfuel View Post
    good god man pull your finger out!!! we build 2500 sigma engines a day.. very nice project i'll let you know when we start building 1.6 turbo motors..

    cheers terry
    <- look, both of my fingers are showing.


    I'm not so keen on the turbo bit itself. I'm an N/A man all the way. In racing series, on finnish tracks turbos are more or less useless.
    I'm especially interrested in the crank of the turbo version.
    I tried to interrogate some info out of you about the turbo version in the Zetec SE topic.
    Last edited by Roadsport; 23-10-2009 at 05:42.

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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Quote Originally Posted by angliaant View Post
    o.k cool, yeah defo help you loose a lot of weight, RE my engine, i got some silly wheels cheap and now have silly plans for the car, so the SE just wouldnt make the power needed to get me going quick enough (not in N/A form anyway) would be interested in the turbo version though if they do make them

    Not quick enough? In an Anglia? Or is the Anglia project on hold too?
    Be carefull there. Are you building an race or road going car?

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    Re: Race Escort Zetec SE (engine build)

    Some items arrived today. And the xmember is finished now. Turned out great! I like the powder coating alot.

    Click image for larger version Name:	pönttö ja palkki 002.jpg Views:	5 Size:	1.21 MB ID:	38088

    Click image for larger version Name:	pönttö ja palkki 015.jpg Views:	2 Size:	1.23 MB ID:	38093

    Click image for larger version Name:	pönttö ja palkki 016.jpg Views:	3 Size:	1.03 MB ID:	38091

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