duratec smoking and using oil

[kipsy]

Hi all im trying to solve a problem with my duratec using oil.
The engine uses a retro ford sump set up etc with jenvey bodies and has been fully rebuilt by scholar engines.
The engine once run in on cheap oil was taken to the rolling road where once under load i could see it was smoking quite a bit (blue oil smoke) . I used the car for a while to see if just needed the rings to bed in better etc and to see if the smoing stopped-it didnt.
I have done prob 2k miles in it now and i find im having to top the car up mid journey as using so much. The engine is performing extremely well with 232 bhp and drives superb just uses oil.
Having spoken to scholar this morning he said that its possible that the bores are glazed and oil is coming up from the sump? The pistons all look like they have oil on the crowns, (wet black even though engine shut off once hot the day before and been given a long run) where it should be sooty yeh.
The breathers are plumbed in correctly not into the induction etc
Anyone any ideas?
Thanks for reading kipsy

[dobuy]

If all the pistons are black, then it can't really be the head, I guess a glazed bore would make some sense, either that or they did not install the oil rings

[Graham]

that much oil consumption can only be ring related

[kipsy]

Perhaps it's glazed bores then and the rings are not sealing properly? The pistons and rings were new when fitted though and should of been done correctly as reputable engine builder. The running in process was basically drove itaround for 2-300 miles on mineral cheap of then oil change and dyno session.
Scholar said to take engine back to them and they will take a look but trouble is
1- it's going to cost a few quid to get itrebuilt ( hopefully just head gasket set and maybe rings?)
2- it's about 260 ish miles away ( south Wales- Suffolk)

[para144]

Perhaps it's glazed bores then and the rings are not sealing properly? The pistons and rings were new when fitted though and should of been done correctly as reputable engine builder. The running in process was basically drove itaround for 2-300 miles on mineral cheap of then oil change and dyno session.
Scholar said to take engine back to them and they will take a look but trouble is
1- it's going to cost a few quid to get itrebuilt ( hopefully just head gasket set and maybe rings?)
2- it's about 260 ish miles away ( south Wales- Suffolk)

Did they offer any suggestions or things to try or just 'bring it back'?

[kipsy]

Just take it back. No suggestions really. If going back though so tempted to put forged high compression pistons and rods in! Fecking behave

[alladdin]

what issue with this did you have prior to them rebuilding it ?

[kipsy]

The engine was making a tapping noise which I thought was a follower? Had a damaged piston apparently. New pistons and rings have been fitted now though.
I think the old engine smoked a little but cant be sure as I only ran it for one dyno session

[Adam B]

surely its got to be partially their fault?

[kipsy]

That's the thing won't know until it's taken back and apart. They are trying to be helpful and are not robbing me off etc. They said they want to know the issue to as got good rep etc. Just another pain in the ass though as had 4 engines last year and already having to have another build on the cards this year. Never ends

[kipsy]

Bit of an update, did a rally over epynt on the weekend and the engine pulled superb but used loads of oil. Noticed that the engine doesn't smoke whilst under load ( lots of pictures etc to prove) but as soon as you back off the throttle ( engine braking etc) then back on the gas etc big cloud of blue but clears almost straight away?? Anyone??
Prob coming out next week

[exboyracer]

Sounds like valve stem oil seals to me. The vacuum on over-run is most likely pulling the oil down through the valve guides.

[team_zi]

that much oil consumption can only be ring related

Ditto. Broken ring? Is the compression OK?

Is the block breather fitted?

[kipsy]

Wouldn't of thought broken ring as smoked since new build and seems to pull really strong, the breather block is fitted and plumbed into catch tank. Oil on top of all pistons

[dynoman]

Valve guide/seal problem then. Thought it was smoking less at the end of the rally on sunday.

[kipsy]

Depends where you was watching after long downhills engine braking would be a massive blue cloud behind me. Lots of pictures sent me looking like a red arrow. Did you watch anywhere interesting? Didn't think anyone knew my car on here

[dynoman]

Seeing as i set it up for you , i ought to know it!!

[kipsy]

Originally Posted by dynoman
Valve guide/seal problem then. Thought it was smoking less at the end of the rally on sunday.
Didn't know it was you vince sorry. Took motor out this morning and shipped it off to scholar. Fingers crossed they find the problem and are kind to me financially

[dynoman]

No need to appologise.

It has always smoked though. They have missed something.

[Mark B]

How much breathing goes on from the crank case?

I have my breather pipe open to the elements at present, since we decided to scrap the pipercross air box at the RR, which it fed to. I have noticed a small puff every so often, that I assume is coming from the breather. It didn't smoke on the RR, so it may be coming form somewhere else.

It also could be the odd spatter from the gearbox driveshaft seal hitting the manifold, but my gut feeling is it's engine breather.

Any thoughts? It will ultimately be plumbed into the catch tank but thought I'd ask.

Car - Elise with Rover gearbox and 2.0 Duratec engine.

[kipsy]

My car uses a 10mm bore pipe which comes from both the rocker and another from the plastic engine breather under the inlet manifold into a 1l catch tank with one of the little breather filters fitted (Alimax unit). Unsure how much it does breath quantity wise as unable to measure but as standard rpm, bore, comp ratio would of thought not far from standard??? Does have jenvey 45s and large bore exhaust so maybe a little more?

[kipsy]

Engine arrived at scholar, fingers crossed they find the problem and it doesn't cost me much, got a wedding to pay for in may and think if can't afford suits the future wife won't be too hapy

[kipsy]

Had a call from scholar, looked at bottom end, Alan told me that the bores were a little glazed possibly due to not running in correctly, as in was driving it too gently? Does this sound feasable? The rest of the bottom end was in superb condition. Top end yet to be looked at.
Is it possible that the engine is burning oil due to a poor sump design? It's a retro ford sump which dave colledge claims is good and never had a problem

[alladdin]

glazed bores will cause the issue (some zafira dti's suffered it due to gentle running in but i think they had a nicosil coating) im not sure how you would have to run it in to "do it wrong" tho as modern engine tolerences are so good. did they give strict instructions to do or not do something ?

cant see it being a sump issue myself, its well proven.

[kipsy]

They told me today to drive it gently for around 15-20 miles then use it properly. Rev it up use it reasonably hard on times to ensure fully bed in.
Just had a phone call from them- crank is now knackered. Well pissed off. Retro ford bellhousing had caused input shaft from gearbox to put pressure on spigot bearing which had inturn constantly put pressure on crank causing it to wear. Result- fecked crank and another rebuild required.
Honestly feel like jacking it in. So much money constantly down the pan

[alladdin]

that sounds odd, the shaft goes right thro the bearing, it cant push it ?

[kipsy]

Apparently goes through the spigot then into the end of the crank. Happened to quite a few duratecs even with steel cranks. Then I would be seriously gutted

[alladdin]

thats always possible, if its a rf b/h issue then im surprised its not been highlighted before, have you contacted him ?

[kipsy]

No I havnt contacted him, I'll wait to see how much coin need to spend first. Not good my wedding in may