My 2.1 Pinto with ITB's

[Bakerk]

Hi everyone I have recently restored a mk1 2dr escort and built the 2.0 pinto myself. What im after is a little more power or specifically advice about a bigger camshaft. I have a 205 injection block bored +1.5mm with cosworth length h beam rods and Mahle cast low comp pistons. Im using a 1.6L head that ive ported myself with JB weld filled ports . 44mm and 38mm valves . I have made a manifold to adapt toyota 4age quad throttle bodies and using a Link G4 ecu . Compression is 10.95 to 1 . At the moment im using a Crow 26661 camshaft and getting 150hp and 192nm of torque . Im looking at possibly a kent RL31 cam but just looking for a little feedback of what others think of this cam ? Hoping for another 20hp to 30hp but still driveable. Thanks Kerry

[Graham]

if your head is good and everything else right i would you could see 180bhp.

p.s +1.5 pistons dont give 2.1 they give something like 2058cc

[Bakerk]

Thanks for your feedback . That power lvl was what i was hoping for. I am aware that +1.5 is 2058 cc which of course is closer to 2.1 than 2.0. Has anyone had experience with how the RL31 runs below 3krpm?

[Bakerk]

Dyno.jpg.jpg

I appear to have a dip in the power curve between 2000rpm and 2700rpm amd am trying to work out why ? and also how to eliminate this.

[mariors2000]

is that 153 flywheel hp or rear wheel hp cheers mario.

[Bakerk]

150 hp at the flywheel or 153ps . Cam is crow 26661 with. .448 in. .448 exhaust 280 in 290 exh and 112 lsa.

[Graham]

dyna pack will be a hub dyno so neither wheels or flywheel

[mariors2000]

Ok flywheel hp I'm making 140hp at the rear wheel my cam is a Clive cam 159 grind which has 106 LSA and .500 lift haven't used gts1 camshaft but I'm sure it will make more power than your crow camshaft LSA to wide to make good power cheers Mario.

[Bakerk]

Clive cams 159 grind . I cant seem to find specs on them . i see they are in Australia near me in New Zealand.

[Bakerk]

Im thinking i have too much compression for the duration of the crow 26661 cam causing detonation and thus why we had to back off timing a lot between 2000rpm and 3000rpm . Thats why im thinking the RL31 cam will help with higher duration.

[mariors2000]

I checked crow cam to rl31 duration very close it has more lift the rl31 has between 285 and 289 duration you be better off with a cam with 300 deg cheers Mario.

[Bakerk]

Ok as i thought the rl 31 has more overlap and duration to drop the static compression. Im only using 98 octane fuel as its available at most gas stations here . I thought it would have been high enough but obviously not . Cheers.

[mariors2000]

Have you try using kelford cams were you are cheers mario

[Graham]

I checked crow cam to rl31 duration very close it has more lift the rl31 has between 285 and 289 duration you be better off with a cam with 300 deg cheers Mario.

its dangerous trying to compare lift/timing figures from different manufacturers cams against each other, quite often a manufactures figures dont even match there own cam, so comparing to some other cam is vague to say the least

Ok as i thought the rl 31 has more overlap and duration to drop the static compression. Im only using 98 octane fuel as its available at most gas stations here . I thought it would have been high enough but obviously not . Cheers.

RL 31 will happily work with near 11.1 cr and 98 octane

[mariors2000]

My point was that the rl31 cam doesn't have 300 deg duration it's got less same as crow cam 26661 cheers Mario

[Miniliteman]

I checked crow cam to rl31 duration very close it has more lift the rl31 has between 285 and 289 duration you be better off with a cam with 300 deg cheers Mario.

Where did you find those specs for the RL31?

[Graham]

My point was that the rl31 cam doesn't have 300 deg duration it's got less same as crow cam 26661 cheers Mario

my point was unless you have actually measured both back to back you cant know that.

either way, the rl31 will be ok on 11.1 cr and 98 octane especially on mapped ignition

[mariors2000]

I've tryed the rl31 cam on one of my engines duration in the 280 range no we're near 300 deg like it list on Kent web site cheers Mario

[Graham]

I've tryed the rl31 cam on one of my engines duration in the 280 range no we're near 300 deg like it list on Kent web site cheers Mario

i agree it doesn't have 300 degrees, did you do the same with the other cam? because unless you did you still don't have a valid comparison?

[Bakerk]

I know the Crow 26661 has listed .474 intake and .466 exhaust lift on their website but its actually. 448 on both .

[Bakerk]

But my point is do you think im on the right track with trying to eliminate the dip in the power curve . That its possibly too much compression down low for this cam , and increasing overlap will help?

[mariors2000]

How much ignition timing are you running all out 30 deg I've run a 300 duration cam with 80 deg overlap with 12:1 compression on 98 octane it's fine and 30 deg ignition timing and no pinging you also fine that the dip in the power curve is we're the cam is not working in its power band dirk on turbosport here explained it to me I have build 3 pinto engines all running 98 octane fuel with no pinking cheers mario

[Bakerk]

Total ignition advance was 33 degrees but in the dip was pulled back to around 15 degrees from memory to stop pinging . going by the cam specs it has 59 degrees overlap wich is quite a bit less than the 80 degrees you speak of. I used this cam in a previous build with lower compression and didn't seem to have the same issue although it was never dynoed .

[mariors2000]

Ok try a camshaft with 80 deg overlap it will have about 300 deg duration it will work fine on 98 octance

[Graham]

dip in the power curve is too much cam!

to be honest you are looking at something which is in real world on the road conditions you will never notice

[Bakerk]

I dont believe its 'too much cam' ive used this exact same camshaft before and never noticed this now quite noticeable dip . Its something i can live with but i want to try avoid this problem when i upgrade the camshaft. Thanks for your opinion anyway.

[Graham]

I dont believe its 'too much cam' ive used this exact same camshaft before and never noticed this now quite noticeable dip . Its something i can live with but i want to try avoid this problem when i upgrade the camshaft. Thanks for your opinion anyway.

fair enough, but was that on the same ignition and fueling set up? i ask because if you previous set up was distributor based it might be you now have more advance lower down giving you a bigger "bump" before the dip, without a bump before the dip you would not have a dip

[katana]

IMO (which probably accounts for jack!) the hole in the curve is just a symptom of how the throttle is worked. Most dyno guys like to get the revs up and mash the throttle to WOT whilst the whole induction route is barely flowing and opening the taps does nothing to help! If they were a bit more 'progressive' on the throttle I think most of the hole would disappear! Torque is usually a good indicator of airflow - when it dips something is disrupting it, in this case a slowdown of flow?

[Graham]

IMO ! If they were a bit more 'progressive' on the throttle I think most of the hole would disappear! Torque is usually a good indicator of airflow - when it dips something is disrupting it, in this case a slowdown of flow?

you speak a lot of sense, in the real world with a fast petrol engine who uses full throttle at 2000 rpm? if you need full throttle acceleration you would change down a gear and be above the flat spot anyway.

often a dip in a torque curve is a "bad" length, either intake or exhaust which doesnt suit that particular rev point, less than full throttle tends to kill any bad pulse in the intake as well as speeding up air flow, thers a good chance if you retested at say 3/4 throttle the dip would be much less

[Bakerk]

Good ideas guys ill look at that a little more . Last time i used that cam i had a little lower comp smaller valves and twin sidedraught Dellortos 40s with 35mm chokes which are much smaller than the ITBS i have now, although i remember now we had to increase the pump jet to eliminate ping down low. Could just be over throttling at low rpm.

[Bakerk]

It seem we miscalculated my power results as we only used the front part of my tuners 4wd dynopack dyno and have calculated drive train loss at 11% instead of 15% for rear wheel drive. So i actually have 158hp from the Crow 26661 cam 0.448 lift and 290 duration . I think that's pretty good for an amateur like me .��

[Bakerk]

Im looking at using a Camshaft from a local company Kelford cams its a 145-E2 although im worried its a little more aggressive than the RL31 i was planning on using.

[Bakerk]

http://media2.turbosport.co.uk/2013/...856_Chrome.jpg

[mariors2000]

Hi bakerk how did you go did you try a different camshafts

[Bakerk]

Hi Mariors2000 . Nah still researching and trying to keep costs down.