Project dyno

[stevieturbo]

Widebands were available back in 2002....just very expensive. I still have my old FJO controller from back then, I think it cost me near £800...and that was with a more favourable exchange rate than today ! lol

Although narrowbands could be used to give some info, but used with caution, I was using them to assist with tuning from the mid 90's.

As for the dyno controls...I guess there should be more modern control options for them ? Either from Superflow or others ? I've seen guys build their own dyno's, and then sourced control software from other companies.
So I'd guess it would be possible for this too...some time in the future if funds or the need arises..

But as you say, it will work, it will give numbers...always gotta start somewhere.

[Graham]

Widebands were available back in 2002....just very expensive. .

2002 was the car, not the year! it was bmw 2002, year was 1999/2000

[rallyrob]

2002 was the car, not the year! it was bmw 2002, year was 1999/2000

I thought I'd leave you to correct that.

[waverunner]

yes, its just like the old retro engines we are using, still functions ok, just not as well as modern kit. but if it can read engine speed and torque then it can give you power figures. Its the data side of things thats really moved on.
just in the same way that we used to tune engines by ear and looking at spark plugs, then came CO meters, and computerized rolling roads. although even there my first injected 2002 was mapped by dave walker, no such thing as O2 sensors at the rolling road, and the CO meter kept crapping out, we had never heard of meassuring EGT either, so it was mapped like you do timing he just added fuel until the power stopped going up! nowdays there practically nothing you cant log.

the 901 is basically obsolete as various bits are unobtainable or no one knows how to fix them. its a bit like taking a 1990s computer running windows 95 down to PC world and asking them to fix it, your just got told "sorry mate its too old buy a new one."

Well my hats off to you sir! I must admit I always admire you guys who can work these machines, it's like the old school tuners on rolling roads with carbs, it just an art, and a dying one at that.
I'm actually going in reverse/old school myself and going back to carbs with a BDG, I tried TB and ECU and just think retro needs to be just that and keeping people in work to keep it going is a must IMO.

[Graham]

made a bit more progress, i got a new load cell from superflow, i was really pleased to see when i plugged it in i got torque readings on the consul, that was the good news, the bad news was the readings were nothing light right! time for a spot of calibration, which is done adjusting various voltages on the PCB's then attaching an arm to the absorber and hanging weights on the end of it.





the first part went well, but the second bit didnt go right, after several emails to america and a lot of head scratching i realized my new load cell matched the old one, but NOT the consul, it was doubly confusing because the consul reads in metric, but the calibration arm/weights etc are imperial! the cure for incorrrect readings was change some resisters on the 802/2 servo board



resisters changed i got correct torque reading


bottom digital display on the consul is torque reading with calibration weights hanging on it, it came out pretty dammed close, its reading just 1nm low! in practise its far from the last time it will be calibrated as you should re do it every time you want to run a different engine, reason being you calibrate it with weights similar to the expected torque output of the engine your going to test, which makes sense as you could be running anything from 50 to 1000lbft on it, not that i can imagine running anything that might make 1000lbft!

[Graham]

exhaust extraction is now finished and topped off with a chinamans hat




thats nearly 3,000 litres of water, sounds a lot but in dyno terms its not a lot, the same water both cools the engine and has to absorb the engine power, its plumbed so the water flows from the top of one tank to the bottom of the next, with no means to cool the water other than natural heat dissipation there is a risk i dont have enough, but i can easily increase the capacity of the system by 25% simply by adding another IBC, if that still proves insufficient (which i doubt) i can always plumb it through a truck radiator or intercooler to buy me some more running time.



picture above shows the system pumps, the small one in the foreground is the scavange pump which removes water from the dyno cart, bigger one in the background is the supply pump, it feeds water to the dyno cart tank where the absorber takes its water from, but also forces water through the heat exchangers which cool the engines coolant and oil

[Graham]

water feed and scavenge connections

front on view of dyno cart, the long bar with the pallet hanging off the left end is the calibration bar.
big metal box with six inch holes/pipes behind the dyno is a silencer for exhaust




wiring nearly all done now, just need my electrician friends to come back and connect the breaker box on the right of picture to the building main supply

[Turboman]

This would be a dream come true to be the owner of my own dyno.thanks for taking the time to share this Graham

[Forest_rallying]

This's all very interesting, I never realised there was so much behind the scenes with the instalation equipment of a dyno.

I can help but think that when it's finished and up and running you are going to have dyno outside customers engines aswell as your own and not just use it as a development tool so you can see a return in your investment and all the hard work you have done. By all means keep us up to speed as it's so interesting. I can't wait to see the first Pinto to go on there.

[Forest_rallying]

This's all very interesting, I never realised there was so much behind the scenes with the instalation equipment of a dyno.

I can help but think that when it's finished and up and running you are going to have dyno outside customers engines aswell as your own and not just use it as a development tool so you can see a return in your investment and all the hard work you have done. By all means keep us up to speed as it's so interesting. I can't wait to see the first Pinto to go on there.

[Forest_rallying]

This's all very interesting, I never realised there was so much behind the scenes with the instalation equipment of a dyno.

I can't help but think that when it's finished and up and running you are going to have dyno outside customers engines aswell as your own and not just use it as a development tool so you can see a return in your investment and all the hard work you have done. Keep us up to speed as it's so interesting, I can't wait to see the first Pinto to go on there.

[Graham]

This's all very interesting, I never realised there was so much behind the scenes with the instalation equipment of a dyno.

I can't help but think that when it's finished and up and running you are going to have dyno outside customers engines aswell as your own and not just use it as a development tool so you can see a return in your investment and all the hard work you have done. Keep us up to speed as it's so interesting, I can't wait to see the first Pinto to go on there.

originally i bought it because i wanted to be able to do my own stuff and help out friends here and there, but as with all things, costs and complications have spiraled so it will have to earn its keep, whether its dyno'ing engines of mine or third parties or do some media/ stuff.

for a short while many years ago i contributed to CCC mag, it might be worth me having a crack at a couple of mags to see if they are interested in some dyno testing. im sure theres also money to be made going down the You tube route. whatever im not likely to stop posting stuff on here, i might just have to hang back a bit first.

[Graham]

This's all very interesting, I never realised there was so much behind the scenes with the instalation equipment of a dyno.

I can't help but think that when it's finished and up and running you are going to have dyno outside customers engines aswell as your own and not just use it as a development tool so you can see a return in your investment and all the hard work you have done. Keep us up to speed as it's so interesting, I can't wait to see the first Pinto to go on there.

originally i bought it because i wanted to be able to do my own stuff and help out friends here and there, but as with all things, costs and complications have spiraled so it will have to earn its keep, whether its dyno'ing engines of mine or third parties or do some media/ stuff.

for a short while many years ago i contributed to CCC mag, it might be worth me having a crack at a couple of mags to see if they are interested in some dyno testing. im sure theres also money to be made going down the You tube route. whatever im not likely to stop posting stuff on here, i might just have to hang back a bit first.

[notenoughtime]

This is excellent great to see the hard work that goes into this that nobody appreciates!

Look forward to seeing a newly built pinto on there soon!

[Forest_rallying]

for a short while many years ago i contributed to CCC mag, it might be worth me having a crack at a couple of mags to see if they are interested in some dyno testing. im sure theres also money to be made going down the You tube route. whatever im not likely to stop posting stuff on here, i might just have to hang back a bit first.[/QUOTE]

When I was just a Boy I grew up reading the tuning articles in Hot Car, CCC and laterly Fast Car (until it went pants) written by Vizard, DW and someone called Steve from Burtons. All articles were well written and went into quite alot of detail including static dynoing. Do such mags still excist now?

I hope you still find the time to contribute to this Forum as your information's still so valuable to people. There just aren't the posters on here there that there once was, why I have no idea. The other day I had a look back at some of the posts 10 years ago and it was unbelievable the amount of replies, some from very knowledgeable people that were in the industry giving information away.

I can't wait to see some power and torque figures of the first engine to go on the bed.

[stevieturbo]

As you're already moving a lot of air through the dyno cell, surely a large radiator in-line would offer a fair bit of cooling ?

Or move the water through a heater for the workshop so you can heat the place whilst dynoing ?

[Graham]

When I was just a Boy I grew up reading the tuning articles in Hot Car, CCC and laterly Fast Car (until it went pants) written by Vizard, DW and someone called Steve from Burtons. All articles were well written and went into quite alot of detail including static dynoing. Do such mags still excist now?

I hope you still find the time to contribute to this Forum as your information's still so valuable to people. There just aren't the posters on here there that there once was, why I have no idea. The other day I had a look back at some of the posts 10 years ago and it was unbelievable the amount of replies, some from very knowledgeable people that were in the industry giving information away.

I can't wait to see some power and torque figures of the first engine to go on the bed.

for sure i will keep contributing here, it might just be that some stuff has to appear elsewhere first, for instance if you were a mag editor buying content you wouldnt want to see it on the net before your mag made it to print. As a sideline for me it used to pay well, £25 per 100 words, what if anything someone might be willing to pay these days i have no idea.

the first engine to run on it wont be very exciting, i will probably assemble a standard pinto from whatever i have laying around as a test mule, but even that could prove interesting,

back in the day my old boss used to recon a 38 dgas was worth 10bhp on a standard engine, electric fan another 5bhp, porting intake another 5 and so on, then if you chucked in a fast road cam and you had 140bhp at the wheels still on a standard head! i know most if that was typical 80's BS and oddly the one thing he wouldnt consider until you were really going for it was a big valve head, but we know big inlet valves are good on any spec pinto!

[Graham]

As you're already moving a lot of air through the dyno cell, surely a large radiator in-line would offer a fair bit of cooling ?

interesting idea, but not feasible unfortunately, on rolling road you have a massive fan to keep the engine cool, but thats only a small part of the heat source, the absorbers generate a huge amount of heat which isnt dealt with by the engine cooling fan. The place my dyno came from had a roof mounted radiator and fan, that fan was TWICE the size of the exhaust extractor fan and the rad was about 6 foot square and a foot thick. even on 400v3ph the fan pulled that much current it needed a 60A breaker.

[stevieturbo]

One good thing about the Rototest hub dyno, that I dont think many others do.....is they actually use the the driven power from the vehicle, to then power large cooling fans.
I think it's done via hydraulics. Which is handy...if you've 500hp of engine running, makes sense to use some of that energy to then cool things.

Obviously the dyno airflow and the radiator I refer to isn't going to entirely cool anything, but the air is being moved anyway, so adding some cooling ability at the same time makes some sense.

[Graham]

Obviously the dyno airflow and the radiator I refer to isn't going to entirely cool anything, but the air is being moved anyway, so adding some cooling ability at the same time makes some sense.

im reluctant to do anything which may reduce air flow through the cell, the intake side is already a bit strangled compared to how it was installed because it now has to breath through a window not a door.

the dyno cell is literally 5 feet away our office so im pretty certain i wont be able to run anything at real load during the day when we are open. As the Crow flies my landlord lives only about 200 meters away, so i cant run it late at night either, so im not going to be able to runs for hours on end anyway, which is why i think i will get away without masses more water or a huge radiator. superflow say you need between 4,000 and 10,000 litres of water and 24 hours for it to cool off again. Dave walker has a 1000 Gallon tank, but says thats not enough if you are going to run the dyno for any real length of time. we shall see as they say

[Graham]

Obviously the dyno airflow and the radiator I refer to isn't going to entirely cool anything, but the air is being moved anyway, so adding some cooling ability at the same time makes some sense.

im reluctant to do anything which may reduce air flow through the cell, the intake side is already a bit strangled compared to how it was installed because it now has to breath through a window not a door.

the dyno cell is literally 5 feet away our office so im pretty certain i wont be able to run anything at real load during the day when we are open. As the Crow flies my landlord lives only about 200 meters away, so i cant run it late at night either, so im not going to be able to runs for hours on end anyway, which is why i think i will get away without masses more water or a huge radiator. superflow say you need between 4,000 and 10,000 litres of water and 24 hours for it to cool off again. Dave walker has a 1000 Gallon tank, but says thats not enough if you are going to run the dyno for any real length of time. we shall see as they say

[stevieturbo]

In this day and age, there has to be an efficient use of the hot water generated that would also extract some heat for the cell when it is all in use.

Be it for heating water in the building, heating the building, etc etc. It may not remove all the heat, but it's bound to have some benefit.

Or supplying hot water to the landlord lol.

[POO SLINGER]

boiling an egg in for your lunch

[Graham]

small progress today, we replaced a window ( like the one on the right)with this panel, so we now have a fresh air intake

[jimmy2006]

looking good

[Graham]

im afraid even the dyno has fallen foul of covid as my electrician mate Andy should of been up saturday to finish the wiring, Andy's wife has just tested positive for covid, so thats put that on hold for now

[stevieturbo]

What sort of power supplies does it actually need to run ? Is it fairly light single phase, or 3 phase needed ? ( not including fans )

[Graham]

meet dyno dog!



i wanted a basic simple engine to put on the dyno to test it and get used to it, i didnt really want to get involved with building a mule, so i fished this old pinto out,
it was a bog standard never rebuilt injection engine, the bores still have some honing marks, the dregs of oil from it were fairly clean, i cut the oil filter open and inspected it, all looked good, so i decided to use it exactly as is, well almost i banged a new core plug in to replace one which had a hole in it.

[Graham]

What sort of power supplies does it actually need to run ? Is it fairly light single phase, or 3 phase needed ? ( not including fans )

the dyno itself doesnt need any power as such, it has a 12v battery to power the starter/ignition etc, although thats all dead until you switch on the console which itself runs off a 13A plug. main power usage are the two 3ph pumps which feed and scavenge water from the dyno plus the extractor fan. but thats a lot of extra kit to feed with no spare power supplies in the building

[andypipe]

im afraid even the dyno has fallen foul of covid as my electrician mate Andy should of been up saturday to finish the wiring, Andy's wife has just tested positive for covid, so thats put that on hold for now

I will be up as soon as i can, and will be bringing the boat anchor with me

[Graham]

dyno dogs old oil filter, dirty but no metalic particals trapped in it.


one of three heads im pepping for it, this is a totally standard and unskimmed head, all ive done is lap the valves in and fit it with an £8 yes £8 head gasket and some second hand stretch head bolts, i know your not supposed to reuse them but as this is only a dyno test mule i dont want to spend anything on it.





wiring finished and pumps etc all working, Today we got dog bolted up, hopefully we can make some noise soon.

Ironically, if it all works properly the next thing i need to do is pull the pinto back off as i have a clients V8 rover engine waiting to go on it

[rallyrob]

Looking good. Hope you get it fired up soon.

[notenoughtime]

Excellent, how long will Dyno dog last lol

[Graham]

Excellent, how long will Dyno dog last lol

long enough to do a few head tests i hope, i did use a new cambelt, and new cheap pattern cam followers, i was actually going to try and reuse un worn old ones, but i had a quick look and didnt find any, then i spotted i could buy the pattern ones for £20 a set, so it wasnt worth looking any further, the cam is very good but not perfect, all told including a new cam oil seal, rocker gasket, oil and filter etc, it owes me £50, so im not too concerned how long it lasts.

[Forest_rallying]

long enough to do a few head tests i hope, i did use a new cambelt, and new cheap pattern cam followers, i was actually going to try and reuse un worn old ones, but i had a quick look and didnt find any, then i spotted i could buy the pattern ones for £20 a set, so it wasnt worth looking any further, the cam is very good but not perfect, all told including a new cam oil seal, rocker gasket, oil and filter etc, it owes me £50, so im not too concerned how long it lasts.

Are you running it up on it's standard carb or a set of side draughts? The head looks in good condition, what are your predictions, 100 Horse?

[Graham]

Are you running it up on it's standard carb or a set of side draughts? The head looks in good condition, what are your predictions, 100 Horse?

predictions was going to be the subject of another thread. i dont at the moment have any sidedrafts so going to run it on a 32/36 for now, i lapped the valves so they seat perfectly ( i vacuum tested them afterwards) so a lot will depend on ring condition but if they are good i think it ought to see 110BHp given no cooling fan and 421 manifold

[Turboman]

Is that a valve grinder in the back ground of the head picture ?

[Forest_rallying]

predictions was going to be the subject of another thread. i dont at the moment have any sidedrafts so going to run it on a 32/36 for now, i lapped the valves so they seat perfectly ( i vacuum tested them afterwards) so a lot will depend on ring condition but if they are good i think it ought to see 110BHp given no cooling fan and 421 manifold

I do have a spare set of 45 Webers that you are welcome to borrow if you wanted to try them.

[meXEco]

Awesome good work G.

[Graham]

I do have a spare set of 45 Webers that you are welcome to borrow if you wanted to try them.

thanks, i have been looking for carbs, but bearing in mind i dont actually own anything pinto powered any more i am reluctant to splash a load of cash just for testing purposes