WCXM with lower rack mount - extend steering column??

[jonesy1]

Hello,

I've just bought myself a WCXM with the lower steering rack mounts and now have been informed that I will have to extend the steering column to make it meet??
Anybody know how to do this.....I'm sure there is an easy way around this??!
Many thanks

[exboyracer]

Yeah, use a standard xmember unless you are rallying!

[jonesy1]

thing is I've got the xmember with the lower rack mount now so am kinda committed!

[Scott_B]

MK1 mex long stem rack?
Or
Different uj to extend between the column and rack?
Dont know for sure, just throwing ideas in to the pot

[freddy686868]

Just use the group 4 u.j coupling they are only about £18.

[Graham]

is that coupling not shorter than std?

[jonesy1]

if the grp4 coupling would fix my problem that would be great.....wish I'd just gone for the standard now but thought the lower rack would make it easier to get engine in/out?!?

[freddy686868]

is that coupling not shorter than std?

I used one on my escort when i bought the wcxm with lower rack mounts and it worked fine? I can take a picture and upload it if that helps.

[jonesy1]

yeah that would be brilliant! I guess you can get them out of Burtons??

I used one on my escort when i bought the wcxm with lower rack mounts and it worked fine? I can take a picture and upload it if that helps.

[jonesy1]

Ok, have come to fit the Wcxm and the engine seems far to high in the engine bay and the engine is virtually touching the bulk head. Looking at it at the moment doesn't seem like the bonnet would even close. I bought the stuff from burtons! Any help would be really appreciated as surely this should be a straight bolt in job. Cheers

[jonesy1]

[jonesy1]

Hopefully pics help you abit?! Have tried the mounts both way round and looks like it only fits one wiay. Very badly tho!

[Miniliteman]

If you fit a WCXM with lowered rack mounts you also have to fit cranked steering arms on the strut otherwise your steering geometry will be way out.

[Clint]

What is wrong with the standard x member? it will make your car handle better than a WCXM

[jonesy1]

I'm beginning to think this whole wxcm thingy was a bad idea!!

[oldskoolrools]

try the uj from a ka (i think) its longer so should make up the difference

[mk2rs2]

You'l need gartrac cranked steering arms aswel because it will make your rack basically inline with ya steering arms which will cause bump steer alot ! You'd of bin better with a standard xmember to be honest. Also a grp4 nuckle wont be long enough you'l need to extend the collum first. A grp4 nuckle just gets rid of the rubber u get in the standard rack to giv a more positve feel and steering reaction. There both exactly the same length.

[Retromotorsport]

Glad everyones mentioning the steering arms...

and what gearbox mount are you using ?

[Erikmex]

Or if you don't want to go down the cranked steering arm route.....raise the ride height, lowered rack wcxm are for forest rally cars

[jonesy1]

Would a standard Wcxm give me the same engine height as the one I have now - the main issue is the mounted angle and height of the engine, it just doesn't fit right! Good tip on the steering arms, thanks. I'm really considering going back to standard with this as it seems more trouble than its worth with no actually gains. In my naivety I thought this would be a good upgrade, oops.

[Clint]

A WCXM is not a good idea at all, it messes up the front geometry of the car raises the engine and makes the drive real harsh.

If your in a position of 'needing' one then consider a chassis mount kit, retaining the original xmember with the towers cut off.

To get a WXCM to work you really need start off with one that has standard height mounts for the rack, then re-drill the TCA positions back to RS position, make your own engine mounts allowing the correct engine positioning....... then there is often pipes and exhausts that get in the way, its expensive and hard work.

[Retromotorsport]

Or if you don't want to go down the cranked steering arm route.....raise the ride height, lowered rack wcxm are for forest rally cars

Ride height cannot effect the relationship between the inner pickups for the TRS's and TCA's and the outer pickups..

if you have an outer TCA pickup 10mm lower than the steering TRA outer pickup, then the rack (inner TRA Pickup point height) needs to 10mm higher than the TCA inner pickup..

If they are different, no matter what height the car is at you'll have bumpsteer. hence why its called 'bumpsteer' ... as the car changes height (raises and lowers) the wheel angle changes

Lowered rack crossmembers are for when you have sump to rack clearence issues... absolutly nothing to do with ride height.

[Retromotorsport]

Would a standard Wcxm give me the same engine height as the one I have now - the main issue is the mounted angle and height of the engine, it just doesn't fit right! Good tip on the steering arms, thanks. I'm really considering going back to standard with this as it seems more trouble than its worth with no actually gains. In my naivety I thought this would be a good upgrade, oops.

And your gearbox crossmember is ?????

[jonesy1]

There's a type9 sierra box in the car so guess the cross member is standard one, not at workshop today!

[Retromotorsport]

The reason i ask is because that angle looks way too much, like the gearbox is dropped on the floor. which will pitch the nose of the engine into the bonnet

[Clint]

The reason i ask is because that angle looks way too much, like the gearbox is dropped on the floor. which will pitch the nose of the engine into the bonnet

That's because them poxy mounts lift the motor up so high, out of interest Gary what angle is ideal in your opinion (say in degrees coming off the chassis rails) I have never measured but recently got asked ?

[jonesy1]

The reason i ask is because that angle looks way too much, like the gearbox is dropped on the floor. which will pitch the nose of the engine into the bonnet

Yeah, I know what you mean about the angle, its definately not right. The gearbox is all bolted up!

[Clint]

Yeah, I know what you mean about the angle, its definately not right. The gearbox is all bolted up!

Have you spoken to the supplier ? we get so ripped off with poorly fitting parts with the excuse they are all like that..... yeah WRONG !

[Retromotorsport]

That's because them poxy mounts lift the motor up so high, out of interest Gary what angle is ideal in your opinion (say in degrees coming off the chassis rails) I have never measured but recently got asked ?

Theres a couple of theories about angle.. some say a bit of tilt helps with oil surge under braking, myself i think thats crap, as anything less than 90deg is going to allow the oil to move ..
Formula cars usually have engines flat.. i aim for flatish, or flat as possible, but its gearbox's and props that normally cause engine tilt.

A BDA with a ZF behind it in a Grp4 historic shell will have the engine at 4 degrees from horizontal. (hence the 4 deg Pinion flange angle on a Gp4 Atlas)

[Retromotorsport]

Yeah, I know what you mean about the angle, its definately not right. The gearbox is all bolted up!

I'd like to see a photo under the car of the gearbox mount ...

[jonesy1]

I'd like to see a photo under the car of the gearbox mount ...

I'll try and get a pic this week of the gearbox mount.......the engine mounts hold the engine so solid on the cross member at that position I don't think there is anyway the gearbox angle could influence the engine angle?!?!

[jonesy1]

Have you spoken to the supplier ? we get so ripped off with poorly fitting parts with the excuse they are all like that..... yeah WRONG !

I spoke to the supplier on monday briefly when I was completely baffled by the angle and height of the engine on the mounts. They said there was a right and wrong way the mounts fitted and I'd definately be able to tell when fitting!! Funny thing is that I have tried every which way and it is still crap. Email winging its way to the supplier as I type!

[mk2rs2]

If its the alluminium blocks your on about they are sided (for the g.box mount)

[Erikmex]

Ride height cannot effect the relationship between the inner pickups for the TRS's and TCA's and the outer pickups..

if you have an outer TCA pickup 10mm lower than the steering TRA outer pickup, then the rack (inner TRA Pickup point height) needs to 10mm higher than the TCA inner pickup..

If they are different, no matter what height the car is at you'll have bumpsteer. hence why its called 'bumpsteer' ... as the car changes height (raises and lowers) the wheel angle changes

Lowered rack crossmembers are for when you have sump to rack clearence issues... absolutly nothing to do with ride height.

Lowered rack mount wcxm,s are for forest cars with raised ride height, if you raise the car the rack raises too and to elimate bump steer and keep the track rods straight the rack mounts are lowered.....the repositioned tca mounting hole typically 1/4" in 1/4" out is also to return the neg camber which returns to zero when using taller springs.....quotes from ford Motorsport ford escort rally prep book and also Most suppliers

http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product...jrobor7v21rui4

[evodave]

What side is the long engine mount on ?

There should be a long one & a short one on a Pinto.

Cheers,
David

[Retromotorsport]

if you raise the car the rack raises too

http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/product...jrobor7v21rui4

You need to tighten your rack to the crossmember..

[Erikmex]

You need to tighten your rack to the crossmember..

Aye really? I suppose the rack ain't bolted to the xmember which is on the body which goes up and down with ride height too then?

[Retromotorsport]

Yes but the pick up points, both outer and inner do not move in relationship to each other regardeles of height ..mess with the geometry by moving one point.. and you get bump steer.

Which is why i said 'You need to tighten your rack to the crossmember' .... because it dosnt change its relationship to the inner TCA pick up when you change ride height...
And the steering arms are bolted to the leg, so the relationship between outer picks cannot change when you change ride height..

Change one, change the other end too..no bumpsteer.

[Erikmex]

Yes but the pick up points, both outer and inner do not move in relationship to each other regardeles of height ..mess with the geometry by moving one point.. and you get bump steer.

Which is why i said 'You need to tighten your rack to the crossmember' .... because it dosnt change its relationship to the inner TCA pick up when you change ride height...
And the steering arms are bolted to the leg, so the relationship between outer picks cannot change when you change ride height..

Change one, change the other end too..no bumpsteer.

Sorry mate but the inner and outer pick up points do change in relation to each other the hub and ball joint and steering arm stay in one place, everything on the xmember moves up or down depending ride height, what are cranked steering arms for then?

[Erikmex]

Change one, change the other end too..no bumpsteer.

Moving the rack mount is only changing one, that's why you need cranked steering arms or get the ride height correct in order to keep AA and BB the same change only one and agreed you get bump steer, lowering the rack changes only the inner